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Old 04-20-2002, 04:04 PM   #1
Dagon
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Default AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

"The following article was contributed by Amigans. It covers a sneak preview of the AmigaOne G3-SE board by Eyetech from their Amigan perspective. So kick back and enjoy and alternative viewpoint on the IBM POP architecture running our favorite operating system: (Re)discovering the AmigaOne."

Click here for the article at PenguinPPC.

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Old 04-20-2002, 05:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

Now I am wondering how many people will read this article and get completely excited that someone saw an AmigaOne.five working? I hope you read the article real good as there are some real clear signals here that the A1.5 is not ready for sale! The part I refer too is that X11 is causing the slow window movement. This is not the case in a properly running Linux OS! I have run X11 on a P90 cpu with a 2mb video card and seen very little window slowness in moving! Eyetech is scamming the Amiga community so badly, I hope everyone wakes up before loosing their money on this scam!

O'Malley
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Old 04-20-2002, 07:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Articia P & dual G4 CPU??

It is mentioned on the article about future AMIGA ONE board with Articia P chipset and dual G4.
Is this an official statement from Eyetech?
What is the schedule for the new version of hardware?
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Old 04-20-2002, 08:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

>people will read this article and get completely excited that someone saw an AmigaOne.five working? I hope you read the article real good as there are some real clear signals here that the A1.5 is not ready for sale! The part I refer too is that X11 is causing the slow window movement. This is not the case in a properly running Linux OS! I have run X11 on a P90 cpu with a 2mb video card and seen very little window slowness in moving! Eyetech is scamming the Amiga community so badly, I hope everyone wakes up before loosing their money on this scam!

>O'Malley


Gee, i love how an anon poster can claim to have run linux on a 5MHz cpu and had it running like a 5GHz workstation. This guy dosn't say much more than he dosn't like the board. Oh well, convince me. :P

I like that the A1 is getting some attention outside of the Amiga scene. So far on other forums alot of people have shown interest. There is the usuall group who aren't interested in anything but a G5 3GHz but then nobody else has been able to bring them to the market either so im content to take what the market can offer me just like everyone else. Since Eyetech has already stated they have plans to contine the line and G4's and G5's are future cpu's as well as different mobo configurations, i think Amiga hardware is pretty much a sure thing. Hey we already have some competition on the hardware front as it is.

Ivan.
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Old 04-20-2002, 11:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

X11 3.x *IS* slow; or at least, induces a lot of CPU overhead, since it doesn't have very good graphics acceleration (just a dumb frame buffer?). There are accelerated X11 servers, but I don't know how effective they are.

I don't know about you, but on my P-II 300 it can be brough to it's knees with CAD software running in X; sadly just zooming in and out under windows is faster (even if it takes longer to load the app in the first place and thrashes my HDD more).

I belive X11 4.x is more accelerated.. or whatever. What would I know. I could be compeltely wrong. Apparently (from what I've read) X11 is far from an ideal desktop environment (architectually).

Bah. Who knows. Ask an expert.

- Paul (csirac_ not logged in)
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Old 04-21-2002, 01:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

Maybe I'm just stoopid, but there is no graphics card of any type shown in the pictures. Did they use on-board graphics? Or remove <some card> for the photos?

tony
:-?
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Old 04-21-2002, 04:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

As it seems this article was posted by Ben Yoris

Quote:
What we saw last Sunday was a pre-production board based on the TeronCX with ArticiaS and a PPC G3 CX clocked at 500 Mhz
Either he doesn't know what he is talking about or their is
a difference to the final board.

Quote:
This was due to X11 and the fact that the OS doesn't activate the G3's second level cache.
Linux has been running on G3-Macs for years so i doubt that
they couldn't fix that cache-problem. Either the (IBM)-cpu is
different to the ones used in Macs or it a lousy Linux-distro.

The only resource-hungry SW i see in the pictures is Netscape,
which i have been running on a K6/233 without having any
trouble in moving windows.

Again either its a lousy kind of Linux or there is a problem
with HW.
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Old 04-21-2002, 04:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

Forget that about the 500mhz cpu !
He knew what he was talking about and there will be
some
changes in the final version (600mhz/ethernet).
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Old 04-21-2002, 04:13 AM   #9
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

i would say most likely that linux has not been optimized for the board.

most PPC linux have been made for PPC Macs





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Old 04-21-2002, 04:43 AM   #10
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

I noticed on the pictures, that there is not even a heatsink on the G3. can this be true?, is the G3 running cooler than a via C3 Cpu?.

would be neat, as i can finally be getting me a silent high performing computer then. :-)
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Old 04-21-2002, 05:03 AM   #11
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

>>Poster:%&$#?@!Anonymous%&$#?@!Date:%&$#?@!2002/4/20 16:40:17

>>Now I am wondering how many people will read this article and get completely excited that someone saw an AmigaOne.five working? I hope you read the article real good as there are some real clear signals here that the A1.5 is not ready for sale! The part I refer too is that X11 is causing the slow window movement. This is not the case in a properly running Linux OS! I have run X11 on a P90 cpu with a 2mb video card and seen very little window slowness in moving! Eyetech is scamming the Amiga community so badly, I hope everyone wakes up before loosing their money on this scam!

>>O'Malley


well now after reading its said that Turbolinux does not use the G3 L2 cache, so its a SW problem.
so i dont know why you say its a HW problem.

even on my 060/80mhz turning off the cache makes it only twice fast as an 020.

& what really counts is how well AmigaOs4 runs on it.

just like AmigaOs3.9 runs better on my amiga than debian, as amigaOs uses all of the features of my HW & debian does not.

like my mediator & voodoo3, with debian im stuck in aga. but that dont meen that my amiga a1200 was not finshed in design.




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Old 04-21-2002, 05:14 AM   #12
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

As an aside, why do we get a Tux icon, but no daemon?

While I only skimmed this quickly, it seems to be nothing new; just a better translation of the French sneak preview that surfaced a week or so back on ANN.

In any case, XFree86 (perhaps a misnomer; as far as I know, it's also used to provide X on PowerPC platforms, being the major free X11 project) 3.x.x does not support 3D accelleration directly. However, it *does* support the 2D accelleration features of various graphics chipsets, including the Matrox Gxxx line. In either case, the design of the X protocol itself means that graphics are most often mediated through the server, which itself must mediate access to graphics hardware through whatever *NIX-like kernel is at hand, meaning that graphics are rarely blazingly fast.

XFree86 4.x.x introduces GLX (a subset of OpenGL that can be propped up by Mesa, not unlike the Warp3D port for AmigaDE), and to obtain GL support at all, the server naturally runs in a direct-access mode (look up 'DRI' and 'DRM' on Google) similar to that previously only used through some odd hacks. I'm not sure if this really improves 2D performance at all, but it surely can't hurt.

Basically, XFree86 3.x.x should have "decent" 2D accelleration for supported chipsets, while XFree86 4.x.x has "excellent" support in some cases. When graphics are mediated through the *NIX equivalents of MUI, the libraries are often the sticking points (TK, GTK, Qt, whatever Gnome uses), and nothing but a faster CPU may help that overhead.

If someone's complaining of slow performance, it may be that certain things were constrained by the security model (I know I get only 15FPS under an older 2D music-visualization app that would fly under Windows and DirectX, using an 850MHz Athlon), or by libraries hitting the CPU (TK and GTK fly on my machine, but I won't touch anything Gnome-related), or finally, by poor 2D support for the graphics card used (I don't believe the Voodoo3 never saw fully open-source support, and thus, it's questionable if its drivers were fully optimized by people more familiar with X11 and XFree86's limitations).

Hope this sheds light on something. The currently single-user AmigaOS doesn't have security concerns with its graphics layer, and thus can use direct-access for just about anything; OS4 will be the same, and should show performance comparable to DirectX (but without the Windows overhead, and with the optimized code of current Amiga ports!)... It can also run the graphics drivers at highest priority, whereas XFree86 3.x.x may be limited to the amount of CPU the running user is allotted. (It does all vary on the way the particular distribution sets things up, but basically, 3.x.x would require much more tweaking than 4.x.x to get direct-access level performance.)

One final semantic note- It's not "X11 3.x.x;" X11 is the protocol, and is currently at revision 6, though I think XFree86 4.x.x may be extending it to X11R7. It's "XFree86 3.x.x," where XFree86 is one implementation of an X11R6-compliant server.
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Old 04-21-2002, 05:37 AM   #13
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

As an aside, why do we get a Tux icon, but no daemon?

While I only skimmed this quickly, it seems to be nothing new; just a better translation of the French sneak preview that surfaced a week or so back on ANN.

In any case, XFree86 (perhaps a misnomer; as far as I know, it's also used to provide X on PowerPC platforms, being the major free X11 project) 3.x.x does not support 3D accelleration directly. However, it *does* support the 2D accelleration features of various graphics chipsets, including the Matrox Gxxx line. In either case, the design of the X protocol itself means that graphics are most often mediated through the server, which itself must mediate access to graphics hardware through whatever *NIX-like kernel is at hand, meaning that graphics are rarely blazingly fast.

XFree86 4.x.x introduces GLX (a subset of OpenGL that can be propped up by Mesa, not unlike the Warp3D port for AmigaDE), and to obtain GL support at all, the server naturally runs in a direct-access mode (look up 'DRI' and 'DRM' on Google) similar to that previously only used through some odd hacks. I'm not sure if this really improves 2D performance at all, but it surely can't hurt.

Basically, XFree86 3.x.x should have "decent" 2D accelleration for supported chipsets, while XFree86 4.x.x has "excellent" support in some cases. When graphics are mediated through the *NIX equivalents of MUI, the libraries are often the sticking points (TK, GTK, Qt, whatever Gnome uses), and nothing but a faster CPU may help that overhead.

If someone's complaining of slow performance, it may be that certain things were constrained by the security model (I know I get only 15FPS under an older 2D music-visualization app that would fly under Windows and DirectX, using an 850MHz Athlon), or by libraries hitting the CPU (TK and GTK fly on my machine, but I won't touch anything Gnome-related), or finally, by poor 2D support for the graphics card used (I don't believe the Voodoo3 never saw fully open-source support, and thus, it's questionable if its drivers were fully optimized by people more familiar with X11 and XFree86's limitations).

Hope this sheds light on something. The currently single-user AmigaOS doesn't have security concerns with its graphics layer, and thus can use direct-access for just about anything; OS4 will be the same, and should show performance comparable to DirectX (but without the Windows overhead, and with the optimized code of current Amiga ports!)... It can also run the graphics drivers at highest priority, whereas XFree86 3.x.x may be limited to the amount of CPU the running user is allotted. (It does all vary on the way the particular distribution sets things up, but basically, 3.x.x would require much more tweaking than 4.x.x to get direct-access level performance.)

One final semantic note- It's not "X11 3.x.x;" X11 is the protocol, and is currently at revision 6, though I think XFree86 4.x.x may be extending it to X11R7. It's "XFree86 3.x.x," where XFree86 is one implementation of an X11R6-compliant server.
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Old 04-21-2002, 08:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

Quote:
Now I am wondering how many people will read this article and get completely excited that someone saw an AmigaOne.five working? I hope you read the article real good as there are some real clear signals here that the A1.5 is not ready for sale! The part I refer too is that X11 is causing the slow window movement. This is not the case in a properly running Linux OS! I have run X11 on a P90 cpu with a 2mb video card and seen very little window slowness in moving! Eyetech is scamming the Amiga community so badly, I hope everyone wakes up before loosing their money on this scam!

O'Malley
Did you run Turbo Linux? They said it was not X11's fault but Turbo Linux inability to take advantage of the G3 properly. That is, other linux distros would do it but Turbo Does not.

That surly has nothing to do witht he board... QNX has done the same thing on my machine, does that mean my boards screwed? Doubt it!
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Old 04-21-2002, 08:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: AmigaOne on penguinppc: POP for us, The Future for Them

Quote:
Gee, i love how an anon poster can claim to have run linux on a 5MHz cpu and had it running like a 5GHz workstation. This guy dosn't say much more than he dosn't like the board. Oh well, convince me. :P
Its pretty easy to tell apart those people who think theirs only room for one Hardware option and that those same people are hoping its going to be the pegasos! - not you, the guy your replyed too
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