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Old 06-26-2004, 05:57 PM   #21
HopperJF
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

True, but iBrowse 2.3 is a big improvement for Amiga browsers.
Still a long way to go.
Question is next version of iBrowse or AmiZilla.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:01 PM   #22
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Quote:
"Then you push the power button and it won't turn off..."
Hehe, I've had that happen a lot. The only way to turn it off is to pull out the power cord and watch a spark. Software power switches suck. At least an ATX power supply will shut off if you hold the button for 4 seconds.

Seriously, this only applies to the old MacOS, which everyone KNOWS is crap. You haven't seen Mac Hell until you've tried using Quark Express on MacOS 8.1, even if it's the only app on the machine. :-)

I'd like a full demo of MacOS X, but the demos they run in the stores are utter garbage that make the machines look slow as dirt.

Quote:
Seriously though, every computer crashes once in a while
I've seen Linux crash a few times, and I even got QNX to crash. My A1000/A1200 crashed all the time. A particular favorite was the neverending requester, which you got with corrupted disks and hard drives, or if your printer wouldn't respond. I actually tried canceling a print job 100+ times until I fially rebooted. :-)

Few people know how many crashes are due to bad drivers, rather than the OS. On a real, memory-protected OS, only the kernel and drivers will cause a full system crash, like the BSOD. The Windows kernel is actully quite stable; drivers, GDI, and DirectX cause all the real trouble.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:06 PM   #23
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

OSX is the best operating system available.

LINUX = too complex, not friendly enough. No professional software available. No standard hardware platform.

WINDOWS = buggy, prone to viruses, M$, monopoly

AMIGAOS = not here yet! (OS4).

MACOS = The best! Easy to use, pro apps, runs on specific well bulilt hardware, great virus protection (whenever there actually is a virus), friendly, looks great. And hell, Macs are great for games these days too.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

I had a nightmare with my iMac G4 once. One minute it's working fine, the next it just stopped working. I mean, OSX would boot up and just sit there on a blank desktop with no icons, no menus, no nothing. You could move the mouse pointer around and that's it.

I decided to try and reinstall OSX. However, it also refused to boot from CD/DVD - holding the C key didn't work, and the Superdrive didn't even show up in the boot menu. I guessed maybe my OSX DVD was damaged or something so I went to the Apple Centre and spent £100 on a new copy of Jaguar. Arrived home, and it was exactly the same!

After 2 days of calling Apple tech support, and typing commands in a shell, I was no further forward so I opened the mac up with a screwdriver and pulled the HD out. It STILL wouldn't boot from CD. By now I was cursing Apple and wishing I'd bought a PC (actually I could have bought 2 high spec PC's with the £1500 i spent on the Mac).

I eventually sent it off to Apple for repair, and it arrived back 3 days later with a note saying the HDD had been faulty! This still doesn't explain why it point blank refused to boot from CD/DVD even with the HDD pulled out.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

@Blakespot

Don't you remember the recent advertising campaign from apple called 'SWITCH'? See: http://www.apple.com/switch/

If so you will see that this is a parody of those adverts which were originally slamming Windows and extolling the virtues of Mac OS and were encouraging you to switch to the apple platform.

In this context the SWF is quite funny.

I think the 'Switch' campaign was launched before MacOS X was released if my memory serves me correctly.

OT:

Aargh! Blakespot...RE your vintage PDA collection... How could you do this to me...here I was thinking I am probably the only one left in the world that still owns an Amstrad Penpad.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Quote:
OSX... MacOS
They're both the best? :-?

Sorry, I was the sysadmin for a room full of "classic" Macs, and EVERYONE IN THE OFFICE DESPISED THEM. The only reason we used them is because the university only allowed Macs in South campus offices. All the "real" computers went to the computer scientists on North campus.

MacOS could fake multitasking, if you had enough memory to run more than one app at a time. :-)

Quote:
LINUX = too complex, not friendly enough. No professional software available. No standard hardware platform.
Agreed. Few people still realize that Linux is not a complete OS, it's a kernel designed to be the foundation for an OS. It was designed to be a low-cost UN*X clone geeks. It succeeded. End of story.

As a result, Linux will never be a real contender in the desktop market until GNU/XWindows is thrown out and replaced with something better designed for normal people. Which will never happen.

Quote:
WINDOWS = buggy, prone to viruses, M$, monopoly
Buggy: no way. Get some good drivers and you'll never seen Win2000 crash. With older nVidia drivers, my dad's XP box runs for weeks without crashing. Just like MacOS, the stability of the system depends on what software you install. Install AIM, MemTurbo, and any of the millions of IE toolbar extensions, and of course you system will collapse. I repair other people's computers frequently, and if they're running XP, 99% of their problems are caused by things THEY installed on the machine, not the OS.

IE and DirectX... well, that's another story. But, you can always just download Mozilla and run games built with OpenGL. Problems solved.

Prone to viruses: ActiveX and install on demand are rediculous technologies, but you still have to LET the virus on your computer. Pay attention to pop-ups, and you'll rarely have a problem.

As for the monopoly, you've got me. M$ has exclusivity contracts with the big vendors. But, small vendors can certainly choose their OS, so long as they believe they can make money selling computers without a "big name" OS.

If Apple can sell non-Windows computers, anyone can. The real problem is that PC vendors have no originality (just like Linux vendors).

Quote:
AMIGAOS = not here yet! (OS4).
No, but OS3.1 was good enough for the hardware on which it ran. 68K didn't offer memory protection except in the high-end, so it's basicly the same as MacOS with multitasking.
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Old 06-26-2004, 09:17 PM   #27
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Quote:
HopperJF wrote:
LINUX = too complex, not friendly enough. No professional software available. No standard hardware platform.
Too complex? For a Mac user, possibly. For anyone that has been around computers for a while it's not too difficult. KDE is becoming very user friendly. Normal users won't have to go into the shell at all.

No professional software? Sure, there isn't as much as Mac or PC. But there is plenty plenty of commercial software available. Is Oracle available for MacOS? Other than the software that is available, a lot of Windows software can be run on x86 Linux.

No standard platform? Umm, this isn't a bad thing. Closed architecture is a bad thing. I'd prefer to pick the pieces that I want in a system rather than have it decided for me. Being stuck with a single company with limited model scope is severely limiting.
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Old 06-26-2004, 09:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Personally, i really dont see why people think to see that WindowsXP is buggy or crashes? NEVER! :-D Here is my machine now.

Asus A7n8x-x
256mb pc-2700
GeForce 4 ti-4200 128mb 4x AGP
SB Live! Value sound card
AMD Athlon XP 2800+

And no matter what I do or what I have it do, it has never ever locked up on me ever. Not a single crash that just completey freezes. Everything I throw on here it runs like a champion. And yes, ive seen OSX lock up whe it went to play some sounds. Not sure why, but it happened to do so. :-D


So personally, glad I own a PC instead of a macintosh. Cheap PC hardware and runs fast. PPC costs too much and not many programs for MACos... and 1 mouse button? HAHAHAHHA. :-)

But seriously... MAC is definately a no-no choice for me. :-D

Amiga roxxx the MAC world.
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Old 06-26-2004, 10:42 PM   #29
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

I just got me a brand new ibook today to go with my nice newly upgraded Power Mac. I am happy to say I am 100% PC free and loving it. How anyone can like windows after using a Mac is way beyond me. the Pegasos is fun too of course!
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Old 06-27-2004, 12:02 AM   #30
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Quote:
If Apple can sell non-Windows computers, anyone can.
Getting the product sold to customers is another issue.

Quote:
The real problem is that PC vendors have no originality (just like Linux vendors).
Note that commoditized hardware = "economic of scale".
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Old 06-27-2004, 12:08 AM   #31
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Quote:
LINUX = too complex, not friendly enough. No professional software available. No standard hardware platform.
Note that Linux runs on "industry standard" X86 PC.

Quote:
WINDOWS = buggy,
No OS is perfect, but most Windows XP systems work fine in most business desktop environment.

Quote:
prone to viruses,
All OSes are virus prone.

PS NVIDIA Driver 61.31 works fine on Leadtek Geforce 4 TI and Albatron FX5900 PV.
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Old 06-27-2004, 03:52 AM   #32
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Quote:
MACOS = The best!


There are bunch of old Macs (running MacOS 8.x/9.x) and everyone avoid them. Dunno why but I managed to crash MacOS just by inserting a CD :-) Then there is no multitasking and apps crash like crazy. No wonder every Mac have a note how to reboot that damned thing :-)

Luckily there are few decent Macs with OSX. Not my favorite OS but it is the MacOS done right :-)
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Old 06-27-2004, 04:02 AM   #33
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Hi HopperJF

i agree with you.

IF i'll do the "great jump" (i think soon), i'll choose a Mac G5 for sure.

A lot of friend that do the same job of mine, has Mac systems and they are very happy with it.

The reason because "most" people, doesn't like MACs system, is because is hard to find cracked software for it :-D

Ciao

PS- obviously i'll NEVER sell my Amiga . . .NEVER

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Old 06-27-2004, 04:18 AM   #34
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Hi all,

guys!!!. . .again with those comparision? Amiga vs. PC/MAC?

How to compare, Companies with million of sales, thousand of developers (in some cases thousands developers/bt only for the OS) with the Amiga enviromrnt?

Come on! . . . Amiga was, is and still a little miracle per se!

Bye
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Old 06-27-2004, 05:50 AM   #35
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Quote:
adolescent wrote:
Quote:
HopperJF wrote:
LINUX = too complex, not friendly enough. No professional software available. No standard hardware platform.
Too complex? For a Mac user, possibly. For anyone that has been around computers for a while it's not too difficult. KDE is becoming very user friendly. Normal users won't have to go into the shell at all.

No professional software? Sure, there isn't as much as Mac or PC. But there is plenty plenty of commercial software available. Is Oracle available for MacOS? Other than the software that is available, a lot of Windows software can be run on x86 Linux.

No standard platform? Umm, this isn't a bad thing. Closed architecture is a bad thing. I'd prefer to pick the pieces that I want in a system rather than have it decided for me. Being stuck with a single company with limited model scope is severely limiting.
It is good to hear KDE is finally becoming user friendly, and the user will not have to delve into any shells.
Closed architecture for me is simpler, you don't have to worry about getting the software to work on your particular system.

Isn't Linux moving away from PPC now anyway? Or is that just SuSe?

As you can see I am no expert on Linux, but based the statement on my own and some friends personal experiences.
A friend of mine had a go at Linux switching from Windows XP last Christmas. He played around with various distros and found the one that he thought was easiest to use. Mandrake. (Insert better suggestion here).

He had many problems early on, eventually as he got used to it (a bit) he decided that the software just wasn't there.
He wants to stick with his Kazaa, MSN Messenger, MusicMatch because there is simply no better equivalents (in his opinion) available for Linux.

Windows in my opinion is still very poor, I was running XP on a fairly high end PC under a year ago and the problems we had with it!
Without tempting fate here, in the 7 months I have been using this eMac I have had a big fat ZERO number of problems. Something seemed to go wrong with the PC more or less every few weeks.
Now please, do not feed me the maintenance crap (scan disk, disk defragment etc) because we did all that, and it was just a long, lengthy waste of time. I haven't had to do much maintenance on this Mac at all, and it continues to serve me well.

AmigaOS - now, there is hope.
Agreed on the fact that previous versions are good operating systems, if lacking support, but you have to take into account that the latest "full" version is nearly half a decade old.
OS4 looks to be coming on well, and I am very excited about Hyperion's development of AmigaOS.

Now changing the subject a little here, my friend will simply not switch back to Linux from XP if there is equal or better equivalents available for the following:-

- MSN Messenger
- Kazaa
- Musicmatch

If anyone can inform me of some good Linux equivalents of these programs, I will appreciate it.
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Old 06-27-2004, 06:27 AM   #36
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

Ok,

I see we have some mac affictionados here so I'm gonna take this opportunity to ask some questions.

I have to use OS X 10.2 at work and there is one simple thing I want to change.

I want to make highlighted text (such as in text input boxes etc) appear as white on a dark colour (black or dark blue is good). I want to do this because I have bad colour vision and I prefer high contrast for this kind of thing.

I've looked in system preferences / colors - here I can only set the background of highlighted text. That's halfway there, but the text itself remains doggedly black and there is no option to change it.

I looked into the accessibility options and there is nothing there either apart from a global colour invert where everything becomes white on black.

This is *such* a trivial thing I want to do. How the hell do I do it?

I've been told I may have to look in sone hidden parameter list file and modify settings there to achieve this.

I find it utterly insane that they spend all this effort making a total eyecandy GUI with all its fancy effects and I can't even change text colour
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Old 06-27-2004, 06:37 AM   #37
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

*starts a new thread*
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Old 06-27-2004, 07:17 AM   #38
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Default Re: Reasons to avoid an Apple Mac

It's just a funny movie. Why do people always take this computer thing so personally?

To claim that AmigaOS 3.x is a stable system is a lie at best. Minmize Voyager - something locks up. Copy files from a CD-ROM - my mouse pointer gets all jerky. Load up an application only to find that it starts in PAL, so you have to reboot and see if you can promote it to Cybergraphics. Download a utility from Aminet only to realize that it needs ClassAct, no wait it wants BGUI... or is it ReqTools, no... MUI perhaps... No, it was neither, it's got a custom GUI library included and it looks like crap. How about installer scripts that actually overwrites libraries with older versions without asking? And why does ImageFX constantly smear my pictures with graphic bugs from the different rulers? How come I can't get a decent SID player to work on my 060? And what's the deal with that friggin' topaz font? ARGHJÄ#ÄÖ

But still, I love it. It's the computer and OS I grew up with, so I'm used to all the quirks and oddities. I know that Voyager is unstable, no matter what I do. I know that the IDE bus on my A1200 can't really cope with a 24x CD-ROM. I know that GadTools is dated and that different developers like different kinds of GUI libraries. I know that I should check the libraries in freeware archives of dubious quality. I know that the 060 has a different instruction set than the other 68k CPUs so hardware-banging software might not work. I know that the topaz font doesn't look half bad in standard HiRes no-lace because that's what Workbench was designed for. I can choose to more or less ignore things like that, and these are things that doesn't even spring to mind when explaining to people why the Amiga is such a great platform.

I'm sure it's the same for both Mac, Windows and Linux aficionados. There's pros and cons with any platform and I think it's a sign of maturity and self-awareness to be able to make fun of your computer of choice every once in a while.
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