Officer assault caught on film

[sumner7]

I'm getting really sick of this behaviour from the British Police Force. They do not have the right to beat up people like this... :ranting: BNP SUPPORTING B******S!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3506409.stm

Have a look for yourself...

[odin]

Where does the BNP fit in? :-?

[T_Bone]

What's the GMP have to do with the BNP?

(Or is this more of the "Anyone racist is right wing" crap?)

[sumner7]

If you have a closer look at the article, there was a programme shown last year on BBC1 which showed the GMP(Greater Manchester Police) making racist remarks at their training camp. These people shouldn't be allowed to be coppers. :ranting: That's why I think they're BNP supporting b******s!

[T_Bone]

So we asked you why you associated racism with the BNP, and your answer is because you associate racism with the BNP.

[Vincent]

I saw this on the Beeb's news an hour ago.

The MCP have told the policeman to go home just now while they review it and put papers together for the Crown Court.

People are always going on about stamping out racism here, most of those are police! And now this happens :-x

I found it disturbingly amusing when I learned the guy's surname was King.

[that_punk_guy]

T_Bone wrote:
(Or is this more of the "Anyone racist is right wing" crap?)

No, this is more of that "racist is racist" crap.

The BNP is racist. They are a racist organisation.

[Wilse]

@T_Bone:

The BNP would, as Roger Waters puts it, "like to send our coloured
cousins home again".

They are well known as a rascist organisation.

[sir_inferno]

if that fool hadn't of resisted arrest, there wouldn't have been a problem in the first place!

[alx]

@T_Bone

I took a quick look through the BNP website. Here are a few quotes:

Islam is the menace

virtually every one of our voters and a majority of our activists are compromised by some aspect of the ‘multi-culti’ experiment, whether it be supporting sports teams which include non-whites, buying ‘ethnic’ take-aways, or getting on perfectly well with a few individual members of ethnic minorities

to spend whatever it takes to persuade so many non-whites to return to their ethnic homelands that Britain once again becomes – and will remain for all time – the fundamentally white nation that it always was before 1948.

in a new white Commonwealth of free nations

IMO racism is treating people differently because of their race, and I wouldn't want to count the amount of "white" and "non-whites" in their site.

Reading though other parts of the site makes it look almost look like watered-down Nazism (IIRC the "voluntary resettlement" that the BNP want was the first step down the slippery slope to the final solution).

[mikeymike]

One opinion I've heard (I haven't examined the footage particularly) is that the officer is trying to kick away the arm that the suspect has straight to keep him off lying on the ground.

[Vincent]

mikeymike wrote:
One opinion I've heard (I haven't examined the footage particularly) is that the officer is trying to kick away the arm that the suspect has straight to keep him off lying on the ground.


Have a look at the footage and see what you think.

To me it looks like the copper is kicking him in the belly or back (can't remember which way he was facing. The kick is going straight into his body at full-force, it's not going beside his body to kick an arm away.

That's the way I saw it anyway.

[KennyR]

"Where does the BNP come in."

A shock documentary six months ago revealed that many police officers were BNP supporters.

Edit: although most of us knew that for years...

[that_punk_guy]

alx wrote:
Reading though other parts of the site makes it look almost look like watered-down Nazism

I wouldn't even say it was watered down. Check out this paragraph from the FAQ:


Q: Why are you against mixed-raced relationships?

A: We are against mixed-raced relationships because we believe that all species and races of life on this planet are beautiful and must be preserved. When whites take partners from other ethnic groups, a white family line that stretches back into deep pre-history is destroyed. And, of course, the same is true of the non-white side. We want generations that spring from us to be the same as us, look like us, and be moved by the same things as us. We feel that to preserve the rich tapestry of mankind, we must preserve ethnic differences, not ‘mish-mash’ them together.


:-o F**ktards.

Regarding the kicks on the CCTV footage... If you're trying to knock the arm from under someone, you don't kick, you push. Kicks like that are only "useful" if you're intentionally trying to harm the victim. Yes, I said victim.

[mikeymike]

I just watched it (there's a realmedia video link on the URL originally posted).

One thing I find odd is that I've never heard of a CCTV system that reacts, moves and focuses on movement.

Before the infamous 'kicking on the ground' part of the clip was a part I thought was more obviously dodgy, where it looks like an officer hits him in the face, and he crouches down.

Looking at the main part of the clip, the kicking on the ground bit, I find it all extremely iffy. I can't see the suspect on the ground, and while it's obvious that there's something non-innocent going on, I don't think it's enough to make out a case. The weirdest part is the jump in clips from the guy walking along with only two officers nearby to the guy on the ground with 5 officers around him. Also, isn't it extremely bizarre, considering that the police almost certainly know what areas have CCTV running and recording, would do something like this in so obvious an area. What about any witnesses? Why not take the guy somewhere where they could do what they wanted to him without risk of discovery?

If they can get witnesses, as it obviously looks like it was carried out on a main street in a town, so it shouldn't be difficult, then fine, take the policemen in question to the cleaners.

People can and do act like complete wankers even after the smallest amount of alcohol. That clip goes on to say how the guy had been smashing up bus shelters while women were waiting for the bus. He's not going to be a nice piece of work is he, and most likely he had had run-ins with the police where he had tried to take them on before. While that doesn't excuse the police being violent, I think anyone with a reasonably balanced opinion of people generally would cut them a bit of slack.

To become a policeman you have to have little or no criminal record. That pretty much rules out the possibility that the police are a bunch of animals that some people make them out to be. Ok, there will be corrupt policemen, there will be sadistic policemen, but they're still people. Yes they have to uphold a level of trust with the public and keep the moral high ground as much as possible, but there are going to be times when things get out of hand.

Anyone who goes around saying on the lines of 'all police are corrupt' and/or 'all police are racist' are pretty much guilty of being racist themselves.

[KennyR]

And they're not even right. The white line stretches back only to the colonisation of Europe some 10,000 years ago. Before that, our ancestors were very, very black.

But then, political racism was never really based on fact. The Nazis thought the "Aryan race" was descended from superhuman men from Atlantis. Teehehehee. :)

[sir_inferno]

mikeymike wrote:
I just watched it (there's a realmedia video link on the URL originally posted).

One thing I find odd is that I've never heard of a CCTV system that reacts, moves and focuses on movement.



Clearly there are, i mean you have ones which pick out a registration plates on cars? for instance the congestion charge in central london



Before the infamous 'kicking on the ground' part of the clip was a part I thought was more obviously dodgy, where it looks like an officer hits him in the face, and he crouches down.




I thought so too, but they actually use pepper spray not hit him.



Looking at the main part of the clip, the kicking on the ground bit, I find it all extremely iffy. I can't see the suspect on the ground, and while it's obvious that there's something non-innocent going on, I don't think it's enough to make out a case. The weirdest part is the jump in clips from the guy walking along with only two officers nearby to the guy on the ground with 5 officers around him.


That is pretty strange

Also, isn't it extremely bizarre, considering that the police almost certainly know what areas have CCTV running and recording, would do something like this in so obvious an area. What about any witnesses? Why not take the guy somewhere where they could do what they wanted to him without risk of discovery?




yep makes sense, and why not wait until they're in the van?


If they can get witnesses, as it obviously looks like it was carried out on a main street in a town, so it shouldn't be difficult, then fine, take the policemen in question to the cleaners.

People can and do act like complete wankers even after the smallest amount of alcohol. That clip goes on to say how the guy had been smashing up bus shelters while women were waiting for the bus. He's not going to be a nice piece of work is he, and most likely he had had run-ins with the police where he had tried to take them on before. While that doesn't excuse the police being violent, I think anyone with a reasonably balanced opinion of people generally would cut them a bit of slack.



Especially since he's running away from them i.e. resisting arrest



To become a policeman you have to have little or no criminal record. That pretty much rules out the possibility that the police are a bunch of animals that some people make them out to be. Ok, there will be corrupt policemen, there will be sadistic policemen, but they're still people. Yes they have to uphold a level of trust with the public and keep the moral high ground as much as possible, but there are going to be times when things get out of hand.



If all this is true, but yeah, most of them are good peeps



Anyone who goes around saying on the lines of 'all police are corrupt' and/or 'all police are racist' are pretty much guilty of being racist themselves.


especially if they support the BNP

i'm just interested that the cctv thing wasn't time lapse...


(p.s. arn't people who hate racist people, racist again racist people? :-))

[that_punk_guy]

mikeymike wrote:
Before the infamous 'kicking on the ground' part of the clip was a part I thought was more obviously dodgy, where it looks like an officer hits him in the face, and he crouches down.


I thought that was where he was supposed to have been sprayed with gas.

Why not take the guy somewhere where they could do what they wanted to him without risk of discovery?

Maybe they thought it was appropriate behaviour... That's scary.


To become a policeman you have to have little or no criminal record. That pretty much rules out the possibility that the police are a bunch of animals that some people make them out to be.


...Jack the Ripper didn't have a criminal record ;-)


Anyone who goes around saying on the lines of 'all police are corrupt' and/or 'all police are racist' are pretty much guilty of being racist themselves.


:-?

[sir_inferno]

Full Metal Jacket Script Writer wrote:



(To a black person) What's you name maggot? SIR PRIVATE JOHNSON SIR Bull*poo* your name is now Snowball, do you like that name? SIR YES SIR Well he's something you won't like, they don't serve fried chicken and watermellon in the canteens here...



Although that is an old film [brilliant mind you :-)] it shows how freely racism was accepted not that long ago

[mikeymike]

sir_inferno wrote:
mikeymike wrote:
I just watched it (there's a realmedia video link on the URL originally posted).
One thing I find odd is that I've never heard of a CCTV system that reacts, moves and focuses on movement.

Clearly there are, i mean you have ones which pick out a registration plates on cars? for instance the congestion charge in central london

You mean the ones that were taken out of commission because they simply didn't work? :-)

Before the infamous 'kicking on the ground' part of the clip was a part I thought was more obviously dodgy, where it looks like an officer hits him in the face, and he crouches down.
I thought so too, but they actually use pepper spray not hit him.
Looks like he hit him to me.

Looking at the main part of the clip, the kicking on the ground bit, I find it all extremely iffy. I can't see the suspect on the ground, and while it's obvious that there's something non-innocent going on, I don't think it's enough to make out a case. The weirdest part is the jump in clips from the guy walking along with only two officers nearby to the guy on the ground with 5 officers around him.
That is pretty strange
I'm glad someone agrees already, considering I'm probably going to be the outspoken one on this thread :-)

Anyone who goes around saying on the lines of 'all police are corrupt' and/or 'all police are racist' are pretty much guilty of being racist themselves.
especially if they support the BNP
Not sure who you mean by that...

(p.s. arn't people who hate racist people, racist again racist people? :-))
No, because you're disliking the person because of their behaviour, not likening that behaviour to that type of person.

[mikeymike]

Why not take the guy somewhere where they could do what they wanted to him without risk of discovery?Maybe they thought it was appropriate behaviour... That's scary.

In that case, they'll be easily weeded out. People who think like that stand out like a sore thumb under examination.

To become a policeman you have to have little or no criminal record. That pretty much rules out the possibility that the police are a bunch of animals that some people make them out to be.
...Jack the Ripper didn't have a criminal record ;-)

Erm, "Jack the Ripper" IIRC was never caught/identified, it was simply a name given to the murderer. But my criminal history is probably lacking somewhat :-)

Anyone who goes around saying on the lines of 'all police are corrupt' and/or 'all police are racist' are pretty much guilty of being racist themselves.
:-?

So you're saying that thousands of people think a certain way without ever meeting them? Sounds like racism to me.

[mikeymike]

sir_inferno wrote:
Full Metal Jacket Script Writer wrote:
(To a black person) What's you name maggot? SIR PRIVATE JOHNSON SIR Bull*poo* your name is now Snowball, do you like that name? SIR YES SIR Well he's something you won't like, they don't serve fried chicken and watermellon in the canteens here...
Although that is an old film [brilliant mind you :-)] it shows how freely racism was accepted not that long ago

It's not indicative of anything IMO. The scene is there to shock and amuse.

If you want a better "sign of the times" quote from a film, watch Lethal Weapon. About twenty minutes in, when Mel Gibson is doing the smiley face on the shooting range, and they're taking about what might have happened to the girl who died, the references to lesbianism:

"so you're saying Dixie was up there with her? Disgusting, but possible" (it's ages since I've seen it, that's a rough quote)

[that_punk_guy]

mikeymike wrote:
Erm, "Jack the Ripper" IIRC was never caught/identified, it was simply a name given to the murderer. But my criminal history is probably lacking somewhat :-)


That was my point, he could have been a cop ;-)


So you're saying that thousands of people think a certain way without ever meeting them? Sounds like racism to me.


Ummm, I don't recall saying or implying that. I just didn't understand your use of the word racism. Whether you think it's irrational or not, hating cops isn't racism, because they're not a race.

[mikeymike]

So you're saying that thousands of people think a certain way without ever meeting them? Sounds like racism to me.
Ummm, I don't recall saying or implying that. I just didn't understand your use of the word racism. Whether you think it's irrational or not, hating cops isn't racism, because they're not a race.

I apologise for making it look like you implied it. Racism basically comes down to pigeon-holing people to a stereotype, usually in a negative way, don't you think?

[sir_inferno]

that_punk_guy wrote:
mikeymike wrote:
Erm, "Jack the Ripper" IIRC was never caught/identified, it was simply a name given to the murderer. But my criminal history is probably lacking somewhat :-)


That was my point, he could have been a cop ;-)



Heh heh, a whole level of waxworks was based upon that dude :-) [well actually you were his identical twin brother (bad news) and you were chased by an angry mob, and the police]

[mikeymike]

The BNP would, as Roger Waters puts it, "like to send our coloured cousins home again".

I'm surprised Pink Floyd - The Wall hasn't been banned by the PC types.

[that_punk_guy]

mikeymike wrote:
So you're saying that thousands of people think a certain way without ever meeting them? Sounds like racism to me.
Ummm, I don't recall saying or implying that. I just didn't understand your use of the word racism. Whether you think it's irrational or not, hating cops isn't racism, because they're not a race.
I apologise for making it look like you implied it. Racism basically comes down to pigeon-holing people to a stereotype, usually in a negative way, don't you think?


Yes, but it's a very specific type of pigeon-holing that doesn't apply here.

[KennyR]

OT a bit, but if you check the dictionary definition on racism, you get this:

1.The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2.Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

The 2nd one shows that prejudice or stereotyping is not necessarily racist. However racism always contains prejudice and stereotyping. That's on topic I think.

But I find the first definition strange. Everyone knows the races are different and have different abilities (whether they are willing to accept it is another matter). The broad chests of the Andean people for oxygen extraction. The dark skin of Africans. The enlarged liver of the Inuit for digesting very high fat diets. Am I racist for pointing any of these out??

I suppose it just covers the blanket description of "superior" in a social and intellectual sense. If I was high up in the Andes then the locals would be superior to me - I'd hardly be able to do much at all with my puny European lungs. But I wouldn't be superior to Africans just because I'm white, and for no other reason. That's stupid thinking.

[mikeymike]

Yes, but it's a very specific type of pigeon-holing that doesn't apply here.
Why doesn't it apply? What's the difference between saying all black being are 'insert whatever negative comment here' and all police are corrupt?

[mikeymike]

I did say "pretty much guilty of being racist themselves.". Not strictly racist, but close enough.

[that_punk_guy]

@mikeymike

Dictionary wars aside, I do appreciate the parallel you drew.

Although I would say that while this gives people a very concrete reason to worry about police or others in authority abusing their positions, there's no reason to suspect a black man of wrong-doing simply for being black.

And I've had a lot more grief from cops than from black people. I haven't been witnessed doing anything more suspicious than walking down the road at 10pm, and cops still stop me and give me crap because they've got nothing better to do.

:idea: Perhaps we were supposed to witness this: "This is what will happen if you do not co-operate."

[mikeymike]

Although I would say that while this gives people a very concrete reason to worry about police or others in authority abusing their positions
That's one thing, but another thing entirely (which has happened on this thread already) is the blatant sweeping statements along the lines that all police are dodgy in one respect or another, which is just plain wrong.

I've had a few run-ins with the police in my life (not because I'm doing something illegal but anyway... well, there was this one time... :-)), and I've never had any cause for concern about whether they abuse their authority. And the run-ins I've had were in some pretty dodgy areas.