It's world vegetarian day [Archive]

X-ray

10-01-2010, 03:46 PM

There's a place for all the animals of the world...right there next to the peas and taters.

I had a colleague at work, a staunch vegetarian and lesbian. She made a remark that it was murder to eat these animals. I said okay, do you declare right now that you don't use any animal products where the animal is harvested? That includes clothing and household materials. If you got a clean slate I'll buy the murder thing and hand myself in to the nearest cop shop.

Never gonna happen :lol:

However, I do think it is unhealthy to eat too much red meat and I have certainly cut down on the greasy "unknown origin" kebab shop type meats and burgers. Fish and chicken are great, though. Can't see any harm in that.
The problem is that people don't eat enough vegetables. I am guilty of this. Lately I have been on a veggie binge. I'm talking serious quantities of broccoli, peppers and lentils. Got an avocado pear also, but feel kind of bad about how I heard a tiny scream of pain as I cut the thing in two and ripped out the seed :confused:

Franko

10-01-2010, 04:26 PM

Apart from nice greasy chips and onions that I put in my home made Vindaloo, I haven't ate one single vegatable or bit of fruit for nearly five years now... :)

A green vegatable I haven't eaten since I was a kid, when my parents forced me to eat them or you weren't allowed out to play... :(

In fact my diet consists of, Curry, Steak, Pizza, Fish & Chips, Curry, Pepsi, Tea, Coffee, Sweets, Crisps oh and Curry... :)

persia

10-01-2010, 08:14 PM

So find a vegetarian and eat her....

ChaosLord

10-01-2010, 08:37 PM

@Tripitaka
What all do you eat besides vegetables?

(I am trying to get an idea how many calories you eat per day)

Karlos

10-02-2010, 05:02 AM

I've thought about vegetarianism for a number of perfectly sound reasons but in the end, I just can't imagine myself being a fully fledged meat-dodger.

Which reminds me, I have a portion of chicken curry in the freezer from last week...

the_leander

10-02-2010, 05:20 AM

Which reminds me, I have a portion of chicken curry in the freezer from last week...

A week old curry (even if frozen)?

I think you'll be needing your old avatar again ;)

gertsy

10-02-2010, 05:37 AM

Hmmm, the word corpse usually refers to a human body. I didn't see any mention of cannibalism above.
Additionally to infer that, other than nutritional properties, eating plants is different to eating animals obviously means you understand something universal about an appropriate segregation of consumption of living things? Please elucidate ohh great yellow one ? The cabbages are awaiting your decree.

Karlos

10-02-2010, 05:59 AM

A week old curry (even if frozen)?

I think you'll be needing your old avatar again ;)

You know, it had nearly 2 teaspoons of Jersey Death sauce in it when it was fresh...

the_leander

10-02-2010, 06:52 AM

You know, it had nearly 2 teaspoons of Jersey Death sauce in it when it was fresh...

*wince*

Good luck sir!

Karlos

10-02-2010, 09:44 AM

*wince*

Good luck sir!

I'm actually quite looking forward to eating it later. The first batch was good stuff :D

The thing about JD sauce is that while it may be like napalm on the way in, it's comparatively gentle on the way out. Secondly, whilst it adds a serious heat kick to almost anything, you use such small quantities of it that it doesn't actually fundamentally change the flavour of whatever you put it in.

It's a perfect turbocharger for any curry :D

-edit-

It wasn't bad today, either:
http://extropia.co.uk/img/curry.jpg

Ok, so it wasn't vegetarian, but it had vegetables in it...

Templario

10-02-2010, 12:51 PM

I'm not because there are typical spanish inlais, chorizos, cecinas, jamon, etc.

kickstart

10-02-2010, 02:35 PM

Why vegetarian people are so extreme?

Thorham

10-02-2010, 03:20 PM

I used to be a vegetarian, until I became vegan :)

Franko

10-02-2010, 03:42 PM

It wasn't bad today, either:
http://extropia.co.uk/img/curry.jpg

Ok, so it wasn't vegetarian, but it had vegetables in it...

Hmm... that looks tasty, made me just realise I haven't had my dinner yet, time for some curry methinks... (haven't had one since last night...) :)

Karlos

10-02-2010, 03:47 PM

It wasn't bad, even if I do say so myself :)

For the vegetarians out there, remember to include broccoli in your next hot curry. Seriously, it's good.

KThunder

10-03-2010, 02:21 PM

I printed a diet book once that compared the gastrointestinal systems of humans with various animals, from cats to sheep to wolves and ours is most similar to wolves or bears .
In the wild wolves and bears are omnivores eating berries, nuts, roots, fish, and other animals.
If we were supposed to eat veggies only our guts would be much longer and have completely different bacteria in them.
That said I love veggies and with proper suppliments a vegan diet can be healthy. Of course many people groups around the world (inuit in the extreme north for ex.) can for generations live very healthy lives eating nothing but whale meat and blubber, seal meat and blubber and fish, without suppliments.

whabang

10-04-2010, 04:40 AM

@whabang
The World Health Organizations report on intensively farmed meat concluded that the dangers from consumption where on a par with smoking tabacco. Enjoy your lunch, it's killing you.

Good thing I ate Salmon then. I did enjoy delicious bacon for lunch today, though. It was glorious.

I just did a scan of WHO's web site, but was unable to find any mention of the study you wrote about. A link would be nice.

The major problem with farmed meat is the living conditions of the animals, as well as the over-usage of anti-biotics in some countries. Neither affect the nutritional value of the food, but the anti-biotics are a contributing factor to the large number of newly discovered bactieria with anti-biotic resistances.

Additionally, overconsumption of meat is negative, as this decreases the ammount of farmland available for more space-efficient foodstuffs. This is more of an overpopulation issue, though.

We are omnivores; we are the primate equivalent of hyenas and racoons. We eat whatever we come across, and this includes both meat and vegetables. While I could definitely survive on vegetables alone, I chose to have a varied diet. This ensures my own independency on imported goods, that are vital if you want to live a completely vegetarian life, here in the cold North.

persia

10-04-2010, 07:19 AM

I ate fish and chips made with Barramundi the other day. They taste great but I try not to think about the fish's sex changing capabilities....

KThunder

10-04-2010, 11:04 AM

do the males taste different than the females?

Thorham

10-04-2010, 11:58 AM

Why is it that meat eaters always have to make comments about meat in vegetarian oriented threads in fora? It's completely bizarre :(

persia

10-04-2010, 12:01 PM

Since the Barramundi become female after about a year, virtually all the fish and chips shops are serving females...

do the males taste different than the females?

Thorham

10-04-2010, 12:04 PM

Why is it that meat eaters always have to make comments about meat in vegetarian oriented threads in fora? It's completely bizarre :(And they just continue :hammer:

KThunder

10-04-2010, 07:04 PM

Why is it that meat eaters always have to make comments about meat in vegetarian oriented threads in fora? It's completely bizarre :(

maybe because they were mentioned in the very first post "... I'm sure I'm not so I would like to see who doesn't chew corpses here. Give me a reply if your a vege too."

They "chew corpses"? that description seems pretty bizarre to me.

But you know what? I think I'm better than all of you because I'm a "non" yeah thats right I don't chew corpses or driftwood. You all sicken me, eating poor defenseless broccolli.

I do have to take lots of suppliments though... all as suppositories.

the_leander

10-04-2010, 08:07 PM

Why is it that meat eaters always have to make comments about meat in vegetarian oriented threads in fora? It's completely bizarre :(

Maybe because your vegetarian brethren seem so insistent on re-enforcing the negative stereotypes around the choice to give up meat.

Now that I find bizarre.

whabang

10-05-2010, 08:54 AM

Maybe because your vegetarian brethren seem so insistent on re-enforcing the negative stereotypes around the choice to give up meat.

Now that I find bizarre.

Unfortunately, I've encountered quite a few almost militant vegans, who basically walk around telling others how to live their lives.

I like to return the favour.

the_leander

10-05-2010, 10:24 AM

Unfortunately, I've encountered quite a few almost militant vegans, who basically walk around telling others how to live their lives.

I like to return the favour.

Ditto on all counts, unfortunately.

Trying to conflate eating meat with cannibalism... Dunno about you but that's a new one on me.

Almost as bad as fundie xtians trying to conflate homosexuality with paedophilia.

KThunder

10-05-2010, 11:48 AM

if you consider all humans as animals and animals eating animals canibalism maybe. if a=b and b=c then a = q imho

"fundie xians" considering male pedophiles who exclusively go after boys homosexual not so much of a stretch

I'm assuming thats what you mean since I have been in numerous fundamentalist Christian churches for well over 30 years and I have never heard anyone say that homosexuals are pedophiles.

the_leander

10-05-2010, 12:14 PM

I have never heard anyone say that homosexuals are pedophiles.

Check out FSTDT.net or pharyngula, you'll be lucky to make it through a day between those two without someone trying to link the two. Quite honestly I'm genuinely surprised that you've never come across anyone making the claim, especially as you say you've gone to various fundie churches over 30 years.

KThunder

10-05-2010, 12:34 PM

Check out FSTDT.net or pharyngula, you'll be lucky to make it through a day between those two without someone trying to link the two. Quite honestly I'm genuinely surprised that you've never come across anyone making the claim, especially as you say you've gone to various fundie churches over 30 years.

Don't be so suprised. Most Christians are caring loving people. If you focus on the maniacs out there that is all you will see. My sister is a lesbian, and we all love her very much. Will she "change" and become what the world thinks is a model Christian, no probably not, but we love her anyway.
I did some research on this to see if it was as prevalent as you say and I found quite the opposite. Tons of sites saying christians think that. Tons of sites with statistics and references saying that people in general think that but no christian ones at all.

This site gives quite a few numbers and says nothing about Christians specifically:
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

This one goes into depth about pedophilia and explanes psychiatrys reaction to homesexuals:
http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/explaining-pedophilia

This one is off the wall but as far as I can tell not christian at all, conservative but not christian:
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=13722

If you search for "christians think that gays are pedophiles" you'll get tons of returns that show that people think that christians think that, but it is difficult to find much support for that.

sounds like a pretty bad stereotype.
gays are not pedophiles
christians don't think that gays are pedophiles.
I have several friends who are gay, I'll have to ask them about this. My freind Randy already told me he never had any problems from Christians. One guy a liberal democrat athiest went after Randy though, called him a "fag" etc. almost got fired for it.

KThunder

10-05-2010, 12:44 PM

ok I checked out FSTDT.net which seems to be a site set up to make fun of fundies. and pharyngula which is a liberal blog site from what I can tell.

FSTDT.net has quotes, most taken out of context, all intended to be funny or provocative.
neither proports to honestly reflect fundie opinions or ideals, and neither would be frequented by normal fundamentalist christians.

probably a fun spot for trolls of either stripe though.

the_leander

10-05-2010, 01:15 PM

I did some research on this to see if it was as prevalent as you say and I found quite the opposite. Tons of sites saying christians think that. Tons of sites with statistics and references saying that people in general think that but no christian ones at all.

The UC Davis study seems to be saying there is no such evidence of a link, the webmd one seems to not say much of anything beyond teaching your kids to avoid strangers and other sound advice. Although it does suggest that normal rules about orientation don't seem to apply to paedophiles.

INB4 Not a true scotsman.

I see your ucdavis and webmd, and raise you Rapture Ready (http://www.rr-bb.com/) and Free Republic (http://www.freerepublic.com), whilst the latter sells itself as a conservative site, there are enough religious folk of the nutbar variety that it might as well be a full blown fundie site.

When I speak of fundie xtians, I'm specifically aiming at these sorts of nuts, not the mainstream.

In the same sense, when I talk of fundie muslims, I'm not talking about your regular, everyday muslim, but about the nuts who, as a for instance order girls back into a burning school because they weren't wearing headscarfs.

This one is off the wall but as far as I can tell not christian at all, conservative but not christian:
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=13722

"the mainstream homosexual culture" even "commonly promotes sex with children."

GTFO.

WND have shown up on FSTDT.net in the past, as often in the racist section as the fundie section. IIRC they were quite popular in the conspiracy theorist circles at one point.

Regarding FSTDT.net taking quotes out of context. No, sadly not. Most of the sites that are being trawled, such as Rapture Ready, Free Republic, Conservapedia and the like, it really, really isn't necessary to do so.

Pharyngula is a science site (specialising in biology) that often looks at and discusses where religion attempts to attack science.

I seem to recall having this discussion with you before.

Thorham

10-05-2010, 02:38 PM

maybe because they were mentioned in the very first post "... I'm sure I'm not so I would like to see who doesn't chew corpses here. Give me a reply if your a vege too."I'm vegan :)
They "chew corpses"? that description seems pretty bizarre to me.It should be 'parts of corpses' actually. That's what it is. A corpse is a dead animal (including humans, seeing how they're biological animals).

But yeah, it's annoying, and happens a lot on veg fora.
But you know what? I think I'm better than all of you because I'm a "non" yeah thats right I don't chew corpses or driftwood. You all sicken me, eating poor defenseless broccolli.:confused:
I do have to take lots of suppliments though... all as suppositories.As a vegetarian you don't have to take a single supplement, and as a vegan you only need vitamin B12 (produced exclusively by bacteria, so unless you like lots of dirt on your food, or like to eat what comes out of the rear end, take the supplement) :)
Maybe because your vegetarian brethren seem so insistent on re-enforcing the negative stereotypes around the choice to give up meat.

Now that I find bizarre.Yup, they're total idiots.
Unfortunately, I've encountered quite a few almost militant vegans, who basically walk around telling others how to live their lives.

I like to return the favour.Don't. Lowering yourself to their level is none sense. Let them rant and rave. The world isn't ready to change just like that, and what they're doing is very counter productive. They're fools :( They could try to get the message across in a positive way, but noooooo :madashell:

the_leander

10-05-2010, 02:44 PM

I'm vegan :)
It should be 'parts of corpses' actually. That's what it is. A corpse is a dead animal (including humans, seeing how they're biological animals).

Typically the word "corpse" is reserved for humans, with "carcase" being used for animals.

As I said, deliberately trying to conflate cannibalism with meat eating.

KThunder

10-05-2010, 07:13 PM

See what I don't understand about vegetarians and vegans is that with a basic understanding of biology, carnivores, omnivores, and herbavores; it doesn't take much to understand that we are onmivores. Like bears or wolves, as mentioned in one of my previous posts.
We do eat way too much meat, imho, and not nearly enough vegetables, but still. We literally don't have the guts to eat only vegetable matter.

BTW I was joking with the "non" comment.

@leander I understand your position and unfortunately agree with much of it. I see a lot of the harm that has been done many times by well meaning christians (some-times not well meaning). Unfortunately they drive more people away than change anyones mind or help anyone.

the_leander

10-05-2010, 07:23 PM

@leander I understand your position and unfortunately agree with much of it. I see a lot of the harm that has been done many times by well meaning christians (some-times not well meaning). Unfortunately they drive more people away than change anyones mind or help anyone.

Tbh I think the only real bone of contention is or was my use of the term fundie or fundamentalist.

Seems that like the term Socialist or Liberal, there are different meanings attributed to the words depending on which side of the pond you're on.

Was nice to discuss this rationally though, ta! :)

Franko

10-05-2010, 10:04 PM

It wasn't bad, even if I do say so myself :)

For the vegetarians out there, remember to include broccoli in your next hot curry. Seriously, it's good.

Ere Karlos, I've got a bone to pick with you...

I put some broccoli in my Vindaloo tonight and all I ended up with was a curry full of mushy orrible green bits, that got stuck all over me teeth... :angry:

Only saving grace about it, was at least it didn't spoil the taste. :)

PS:were you being serious when you said that !!!

Karlos

10-06-2010, 01:02 AM

Ere Karlos, I've got a bone to pick with you...

I put some broccoli in my Vindaloo tonight and all I ended up with was a curry full of mushy orrible green bits, that got stuck all over me teeth... :angry:

Only saving grace about it, was at least it didn't spoil the taste. :)

PS:were you being serious when you said that !!!

Nope, wasn't joking. However, you're supposed to put it in vegetable curry and also not cook it to destruction.

As for green bits all over the place, you've never eaten a curry full of spinach before?

ElPolloDiabl

10-06-2010, 02:53 AM

I loathe vegans as much as I loathe people who gorge themselves on hamburgers and deep fried foods.
Vegans have the same life expectancies as people who have a pretty poor diet (no nutrition). Vegetarians have the longest life expectancy.
If you want to be vegan or fruitarian, why don't you be that primarily, but have a cheese sandwich or beef stir fry once a week just to get a variety of nutrients?

Franko

10-06-2010, 05:36 AM

If someone want's to be a vegie then I don't see the problem with that, same as if someone want's to gorge themselves on deep fried greasy meatburgers (or even deep fried mars bars... yum)

A WHO report a couple of years ago stated that in certain areas of Glasgow, the life expectancy for the average male was 57...

Most folk I know here live on a diet of greasy deep fried food, takeaways, smoke and over indulge in booze, the strange thing is they all seem perfectly happy with it... :) (me included...)

gertsy

10-06-2010, 06:33 AM

...... Vegetarians have the longest life expectancy....

Where do these lines come from...?

Residents of Okinawa, Japan, have the longest life expectancy of any Japanese and likely the longest life expectancy of any peoples in the world.

Diet; In order of % consumption : Sweet Potato, Yellow and green vegetables, Pork, Fish, soy and legumes.
Very little grain, chicken, no red meat.

So the moral is ; Get some pork on ya fork...! Or in ya curry....

persia

10-06-2010, 08:46 AM

http://c1824722.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/1258

KThunder

10-06-2010, 08:59 AM

Obama-Fingers!?!?!? Is that real or a photoshop?

And is it racist for me to say Obama-Fingers?

Ok I just googled it and all I can say is Wow.
well, that and I hope they are good.

persia

10-06-2010, 09:29 AM

Obama fingers, a name like fish fingers, something you eat with your fingers.

whabang

10-06-2010, 09:35 AM

Don't. Lowering yourself to their level is none sense. Let them rant and rave. The world isn't ready to change just like that, and what they're doing is very counter productive. They're fools :( They could try to get the message across in a positive way, but noooooo :madashell:

What's the fun in that? :D

Thorham

10-06-2010, 09:54 AM

Typically the word "corpse" is reserved for humans, with "carcase" being used for animals.

As I said, deliberately trying to conflate cannibalism with meat eating.I'm not doing that. I didn't know the word corpse is reserved for dead human beings.

See what I don't understand about vegetarians and vegans is that with a basic understanding of biology, carnivores, omnivores, and herbavores; it doesn't take much to understand that we are onmivores. Like bears or wolves, as mentioned in one of my previous posts.
We do eat way too much meat, imho, and not nearly enough vegetables, but still. We literally don't have the guts to eat only vegetable matter.I know perfectly well that we're biological omnivores, which means we can survive on almost anything. In todays society, with all the plant based foods available, this means that I get to choose what I eat.

As for digestion, sure, the human gut can't digest plants completely, and some plants, such as grass, are not digestible, but meat isn't completely digested either, yet humans can live on only that. Why wouldn't that work for only plants?
I loathe vegans as much as I loathe people who gorge themselves on hamburgers and deep fried foods.And you loathe them for what reason exactly?
Vegans have the same life expectancies as people who have a pretty poor diet (no nutrition).So eating only plants equals no nutrition?
If you want to be vegan or fruitarian, why don't you be that primarily, but have a cheese sandwich or beef stir fry once a week just to get a variety of nutrients?Apart from vitamin B12, what isn't available in plants then?

Karlos

10-06-2010, 12:41 PM

I'm not doing that. I didn't know the word corpse is reserved for dead human beings.

Now that you do, you can understand why people may be somewhat insulted to be described as necro-cannibals :)

Apart from vitamin B12, what isn't available in plants then?

Steak...

KThunder

10-06-2010, 12:47 PM

Protein. I looked into vegan and vegetarian diets. Neither has (palatable) amounts of protein that I need for my lifestyle.

I'm not a bodybuilder but I do use my muscles extensively at work etc. I weigh ~200lbs and can benchpress well over 300lbs. Meat provides balanced protein amounts that can only be replaced by some pretty extreme vegan or even vegetarian diets.

edit: this is kindof interesting though:
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

Not that I'll turn vegan anytime soon (I love meat, I'm even one of those horrible hunters/anglers)

KThunder

10-06-2010, 01:02 PM

Here is another site with examples etc. really boring stale examples.
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm

look at this from the bottom of the page:

Table 3: Amounts of Foods Providing Recommended
Amounts of Essential Amino Acids

12-1/3 cups of cooked corn OR 6-1/2 large potatoes OR 2-1/2 cups of tofu OR 15-1/2 cups of cooked brown rice

Any one of the above foods, eaten in the amount specified, would provide the recommended ammounts of all essential amino acids for an adult male. Women would need about 20% less of each food due to lower recommendations. This concept is illustrated below:

Food Try Thr Iso Leu Lys Met+Cys Phe+Tyr Val
Adult RDA,154 lb male 1 350 1400 1330 2940 2660 1330 2310 1680
12-1/3 cups corn 443 2521 2521 6777 2660 1820 5326 3616
6-1/2 large potatoes 760 1768 1963 2940 2951 1365 3946 2743
2-1/2 cups tofu 780 2045 2480 3808 3298 1333 4112 2530
15-1/2 cups cooked rice 899 2573 2960 5766 2666 2418 6231 4108
Source: USDA Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 18, 2005.

Notes: Amounts of amino acids are in milligrams.
Try=tryptophan,
Thr=threonine,
Iso=isoleucine,
Leu=leucine,
Lys=lysine,
Met+Cys=methionine+cysteine,
Phe+Tyr=phenylalanine+tyrosine,
Val=valine

How much rice, or corn etc. do you need to eat?!?!?!

whabang

10-06-2010, 02:24 PM

That's a little too much for me. If I get some potatoes with meatballs, peas, lingonberries, and gravy on the other hand...

the_leander

10-06-2010, 02:35 PM

I'm not doing that. I didn't know the word corpse is reserved for dead human beings.

I didn't say you were, I was simply pointing out a possible why as to the reaction in this thread.

BTW, today I found some mindbogglingly delicious wasabi flavoured rice crackers that I've confirmed with my esteemed colleague Karlos is not only Vegetarian but also halal.

They're made by a company called Vitasia.

I shall be buying more soon. :D

@ Whabang, what's a lingonberry?

--edit--

Steak...

:roflmao: