What software works without kickstart ?

[fishy_fiz]

I guess the title says it all. I know some software was written that worked without kickstart (to conserve memory maybe for the early a1ks?(ie. kickstart needed to be loaded into a dedicated area if Im not mistaken)), but Ive always wondered what. The only one I know of (although Ive never tested it) is Dragons Lair.

[weirdami]

Kickstart does. ;-)

[Franko]

Kickstart does. ;-)

I was just waiting for someone to give an answer here (managed to resist the temptation myself)... nice one weirdami.... :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

[TheGoose]

Kickstart does. ;-)

:roflmao:


I always use Kickstart without Kickstart.

[smerf]

Hi,

Well actually Kickwork starts without kickstart.

smerf

[save2600]

Perhaps the OP meant to ask which programs did not require Workbench to boot up. Apps & games that bypass it or use their own scant Workbench certainly saves on memory :)

And yes, Dragons Lair requires Kickstart naturally (1.2 or better). Not sure where you ever heard that....

[Golem!dk]

And yes, Dragons Lair requires Kickstart naturally (1.2 or better). Not sure where you ever heard that....
Wikipedia says so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstart_(Amiga)), and I'm fairly sure I read that when it was originally released as well.

[save2600]

Wikipedia says so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstart_(Amiga)), and I'm fairly sure I read that when it was originally released as well.

Shall I take a pic of my A1000 NOT booting an original Dragons Lair disk inserted in the drive with the Kickstart hand on screen? :laughing:

...or do I have the only copy that doesn't work that way? lol Seriously - if this is true, how do you make it so? I've tried disk 1, disk 2 and disk 6 for good luck. Sounds like a cool concept, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[amigaksi]

I guess the title says it all. I know some software was written that worked without kickstart (to conserve memory maybe for the early a1ks?(ie. kickstart needed to be loaded into a dedicated area if Im not mistaken)), but Ive always wondered what. The only one I know of (although Ive never tested it) is Dragons Lair.

Well, my loader program runs without any kickstart:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320571447274

It boots directly since it writes directly to Amiga hardware registers so doesn't require any OS calls. Once loaded on A1000, you can then upload stuff to it through the floppy port.

It's 1.5K but Kickstart bootstrap always loads 256K.

Any program that directly writes to hardware registers and doesn't use OS calls should be able to run w/o kickstart and even use that memory for it's own program use.

[robo-ant]

@fishy_fiz

I don't know of any programs that didn't require loading Kickstart to boot, but some programs kicked Kickstart out and used the 256K WOM for themselves.

The one that comes immediately to mind is the A-Max Macintosh emulator. A 512K A1000 could have 512K free in MacOS, with the Mac ROMs loaded into the Kickstart area, plus a RAM disk as well if you were using a small ROM image.

There were a few games that I remember went through what seemed like a two-level boot process. Rebooting the machine after playing the game required re-loading Kickstart. I don't know if the games were doing that on purpose to use the KS memory or if they were accidentally corrupting Kickstart.

[Amiga_Nut]

The Amiga 1000 specific ST emulator (which will never get finished as he ran out of WOM space)

I can't think of any game/utility that allows you to turn on your A1000 and pop anything other than a Kickstart disk in first so technically only the above emulator counts ;)

[Ratte]

The Amiga 1000 specific ST emulator (which will never get finished as he ran out of WOM space)


More than 40KB are free, but i am out of time.
Someday (next 20 years ...) i ll finish the project.
I promise ... :D

[ChaosLord]

Wikipedia says so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstart_%28Amiga%29), and I'm fairly sure I read that when it was originally released as well.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.

I think every game needs kickstart to get going.

[Lizard]

IIRc there were some demos which could be booted directly on the A1000, without loading a kickstart first.

[ChaosLord]

I had an A1000 and I never had any demos like that.

[Tuxon86]

And it is also possible to have both the kickstart and other stuff on the first floppy (search for kickbench disk) so it may appears like there isn't any kickstart needed but it is still there.

[smerf]

@fishy_fiz,

Kick start is a program which speaks to the bare minimum hardware in order to load your program, like workbench or games. All it does is give instructions to your hardware so it knows what to do.

smerf

[smerf]

@ fishy_fiz,

Actually none.

No software works without kickstart, the older Amiga's had kickstart on disk, but the newer ones have them embedded in ROM which when the computer is turned on issues instructions to the bare minimum hardware in order to start. It is sort of like a BIOS in a PC computer.

smerf

[fishy_fiz]

Yep, Im well aware of what kickstart is and so on. Ive been using amigas since '86 and programming them since around the same time. The thread was simply asking out of curiousity, as I'd seen references to a few bits of software that disregard it (ie. have thier own initialisation code that loads from disk rather than a full kickstart implementaion). Completely feasible, but rarely done.

Surprised to see this thread resurface though, it was a while ago that I asked this question :)

[Ratte]

And it is also possible to have both the kickstart and other stuff on the first floppy (search for kickbench disk) so it may appears like there isn't any kickstart needed but it is still there.

Kickwork(3.1) & Twinkick (booting two kickstarts at one time)