Phenom II X2 550 BE

[trekiej]

Has anyone here ran one of these?
I am thinking of buying one this year to replace my AMD 235e (TDP 45 Watt).
I have classes on Second Life and it hits 100 percent on my cpu meter more than I care for it too.
If not this one, which quad core do you think I should get?
I am wondering if my MainBoard is the culprit. It is an AM2+ ,I think.
The computer is an Emachines ET 1331 G 03w.
I like this little machine,
it came with 6 gigs of ram, that rarely gets fully used,
a 650 gig hd.
I add(ed) a Geforce GT240, I like (the) card, but want to get the software to over clock some day.
I also added a 400 Watt PS.
I will probably add a 650-700 watt ps when I go to Phenom.
Thanks.

[the_leander]

I have classes on Second Life and it hits 100 percent on my cpu meter more than I care for it too.

Tbh I'd be more inclined to look toward your graphics card if you were having slow down issues.


If not this one, which quad core do you think I should get?
I am wondering if my MainBoard is the culprit. It is an AM2+ ,I think.

Thing is, most games don't really take much advantage of multicores, so going quadcore probably won't make a huge amount of difference, especially given that second life is several years old (yes, I know it's not a game but the same principles apply).


The computer is an Emachines ET 1331 G 03w.
I like this little machine,
it came with 6 gigs of ram, that rarely gets fully used,
a 650 gig hd.
I adda Geforce GT240, I like card, but want to get the software to over clock some day.
I also added a 400 Watt PS.
I will probably add a 650-700 watt ps when I go to Phenom.
Thanks.

Regardless of Phenom, you're going to get a fairly decent speed bump over your current processor. Be aware however that the black editions use a truly staggering amount of juice to get to the speeds they do. So heat dissipation really aught to come into consideration if you've got a smaller case.

[koshman]

Why would you upgrade the PSU? You could fit 2 Phenoms X4 into 400W...

EDIT: @ the_leander: Actually, Black editions use the same amount of juice as the non BE versions, they only have unlocked multiplier. It's when you start overclocking, potential heat-related problems might appear, but that's what you meant, I guess...

[mikeymike]

DDR3 or DDR2 RAM? AM3 is DDR3, AM2+ is DDR2. AFAIK, DDR3 gives a steady speed increase from DDR2 the further up you go in FSB MHz, though each new generation uses less power than its predecessors.

PSUs - a cheapo 400W may not be able to do anywhere near 400W, at least not in a way that matters (eg. decent ampage on the +12V rails, or "it can do 400W for about 20 seconds before it blows! great huh!"). I always go for Corsair VX450W PSUs - virtually silent, and will probably do unless you want a high-end gaming system with multiple optical and hard disks. It comes with a 5 year warranty too.

64-bit OS? If not, then >3GB RAM (plus a little change) is of no use.

You haven't made it clear whether you have a GeForce GT240 or if you're just planning on getting one.

[koshman]

Corsair/Seasonic PSUs are nice, but considering that this system even with Phenom X4 will hardly draw more than 200W (significantly less, I'd say) even cheapo 400W 70% efficiency PSu should be quite enough. Stability-wise, especially when overclocking, it might be a different story though...

[dammy]

Is the drive ATA or SATA? I'm wondering if the drive could be starving the system as it waits for new files or writes to swap.

[ElPolloDiabl]

It's probably a good idea to post on Toms Hardware to get all the information you want.
The best CPU for your money is the plain Athlon X3 The extra level 3 cache on the Phenom doesn't seem to do much.
Check your bios settings and see if the CPU FSB etc. is set up correctly. I always turn off eco settings etc.
Download CPU-z and see all your CPU details.
Is Second Life flash based? Flash is notorious CPU hog.

[trekiej]

Thanks everyone:
FWIW:
Here are my scores.
Proc 6.3
Mem 7.1
Graphics 6.8
Game Graph 6.8
HardDrive 5.9
I do have a GF GT240, I feel it is worth what I paid for it.
I had built in graphics.
There is SecondLife 1.23.xx and then there is SL Beta 2.x.y.
Beta 2 seems to support multi-core cpu, my frame rate is 30 to 60 fps, all over the place.
It seems to be diff. for each up date. Flash, I do not know.

UnrealTournament 3 runs 50-60 fps, old software new comp. It has Nvidia support, I do believe PhysX.
edit: this is at 1600 x 900 resolution
I was hopping that the L3 would be worth it.
The price is good, about 100.00 US dollar.
I want a 635e, quad core with 45 W tdp, I do believe.
I think it is a DDR board.
The board is an HT2000. version 2.2 I think. Hard to find info. It is an AM3 chip.

[stefcep2]

Thanks everyone:
FWIW:
Here are my scores.
Proc 6.3
Mem 7.1
Graphics 6.8
Game Graph 6.8
HardDrive 5.9
I do have a GF GT240, I feel it is worth what I paid for it.
I had built in graphics.
There is SecondLife 1.23.xx and then there is SL Beta 2.x.y.
Beta 2 seems to support multi-core cpu, my frame rate is 30 to 60 fps, all over the place.
It seems to be diff. for each up date. Flash, I do not know.

UnrealTournament 3 runs 50-60 fps, old software new comp. It has Nvidia support, I do believe PhysX.
edit: this is at 1600 x 900 resolution
I was hopping that the L3 would be worth it.
The price is good, about 100.00 US dollar.
I want a 635e, quad core with 45 W tdp, I do believe.
I think it is a DDR board.
The board is an HT2000. version 2.2 I think. Hard to find info. It is an AM3 chip.

geez you have pretty high scores there. Second life is very popular and would therefore be accessable to lesser machines than yours. I mean they wouldn't demand that everyone playing second life require your machine specs, as they would alienate many mainstream users. Could be soemthing else other than your hardware?

[trekiej]

My AMD socket 754 2800+ has a hard time with SL. It had 2 Gig Ram and a GF FX5200 video card.
I was running Vista then.
I am not the only one that has problems with SecondLife.
I do have a large cache size and sometimes is does appear to "calm down" later on.
Sorry, I have Win7, forgot to mention it.

[koshman]

Maybe you're limited by your internet connection??

[trekiej]

I do agree with that some, but not for a high cpu load.

[koshman]

Sure, but in my experience system monitors often show 100% CPU utilization when I'm playing a game regardless of how demanding the said game actually is, i.e. even when the CPU isn't really running at its full capacity. So I wouldn't take that as a completely reliable figure.
Is it possible to change resolution, detail settings etc. in SL? I would try if it runs faster with lower settings first.

[trekiej]

Thanks

[the_leander]

Why would you upgrade the PSU? You could fit 2 Phenoms X4 into 400W...

EDIT: @ the_leander: Actually, Black editions use the same amount of juice as the non BE versions, they only have unlocked multiplier. It's when you start overclocking, potential heat-related problems might appear, but that's what you meant, I guess...

The last BE chip I saw reviewed on el reg had a draw of 160W at full tilt in order to punch it up to the speeds it was running at. Going from ~45W up to that, especially in a small case, means checking and double checking that the case can supply enough airflow to keep the beast from burning.

The regular chips which actually use less juice then my old Athlon64 (socket 754?) from back in the day.

[koshman]

I'm positive that those 160W was the full system, the BE editions really have the same rating as the regular Phenoms.
Of course, I totally agree with the cooling being a possible problem when going from a lower CPU to a more powerful one.

[the_leander]

I'm positive that those 160W was the full system, the BE editions really have the same rating as the regular Phenoms.
Of course, I totally agree with the cooling being a possible problem when going from a lower CPU to a more powerful one.

I'll dig up the review if I can find it, though thinking about it I believe it was an AM3 part so possibly not applicable.

It was "AMD's fastest ever processor" (aren't they all?) and looked to be able to go toe to toe with i5's. Only using about double the power of the regular part...

[koshman]

Well, if it was "AMD's fastest ever processor" then you're probably right and 160W sounds not so unrealistic. I though we were mostly still speaking about the Phenom II X2 550 BE :)

[the_leander]

Well, if it was "AMD's fastest ever processor" then you're probably right and 160W sounds not so unrealistic. I though we were mostly still speaking about the Phenom II X2 550 BE :)

Looking over the specs of that particular part it's clearly not the one I read about on el reg. Probably some limited edition part that just happened to have the BE as part of its name.

Ho hum.

[Karlos]

I switched to intel when the Core 2 architecture came out, having been an AMD user since the K6-II days. It felt dirty at the time, but I have to admit, I haven't regretted it.

I'm just waiting for the inevitable, where AMD overtakes intel again. It's like a 2 man relay race.

[ElPolloDiabl]

I saw a Youtube video of the i7 980X, the heatsink on it is massive.

I always try to get close to double the cpu power before upgrading. Otherwise I feel like I just spent money for no good reason.

If I remember right... flash has graphics card acceleration on Wintel boxes, but not yet on Macs.

[Jose]

There were some Phenom2 X3's that could be unlocked to 4 cores and were stable. This only worked with some motherboards and didn't always work, some couldn't even boot, others couldn't be overclocked much, yet others could be overclocked much!
This was a few months ago, when I got a X3 don't know how things are now. Sadly mine is not able to even boot but I find the X3 more than enough for everything. I don't do 3D design/games but that would depend more on the gfx card.
The DD3 memory at 1600Mhz gives a nice boost in performance and the Phenom2's cache seems to have solved the problems that plagued the Phenom1.

[koshman]

@ Jose: try updating your BIOS. A lot of the cheaper 770/785G mobos had problems when ACC was enabled even when the chip itself was not faulty (4th core only disabled) - they usually wouldn't even POST with the original BIOS when ACC was enabled. I've heard lots of reports where a newer BIOS revision solved this problem.

[bbond007]

I switched to intel when the Core 2 architecture came out, having been an AMD user since the K6-II days. It felt dirty at the time, but I have to admit, I haven't regretted it.

I'm just waiting for the inevitable, where AMD overtakes intel again. It's like a 2 man relay race.

Same here. I had the 400mhz K6-III. Wow. that was the first system I had that could play back a DVD full frame-rate. Then I got the 800 Athlon. Then a 2700+. Now I really don't use regular desktop computers anymore.

[mikeymike]

I'm just waiting for the inevitable, where AMD overtakes intel again. It's like a 2 man relay race.

Bear in mind that the latter-day Pentium 4s (around the 3GHz mark, before and during prescott core) were a tactical disaster for Intel, and finally brought to an end the idea that the higher the GHz, the faster the processor. I think it needs Intel to make a mistake of that magnitude again for them to lose the performance crown a second time.

The only other factor that might make a difference is how Intel's anti-competitive behaviour against AMD has been brought to an end, for now. However, that end would have been to AMD's greatest advantage when the Athlon 64 was ruling the roost.

AMD buying ATi has proved to be an advantage for AMD since they started putting discrete graphics chipsets on-board, it helps them sell their wares as the value-for-money choice, but considering that the Intel Core 2 Quad still gives the best AMD has a run for their money, AMD has a lot of catching up to do.

[KThunder]

My AMD socket 754 2800+ has a hard time with SL. It had 2 Gig Ram and a GF FX5200 video card.
I was running Vista then.
I am not the only one that has problems with SecondLife.
I do have a large cache size and sometimes is does appear to "calm down" later on.
Sorry, I have Win7, forgot to mention it.

Sorry I'm jumping in kinda late here but I just got a good am2+ board for pretty cheap I saw this thread on the Phenom II chip, which I have considered, since I'm running a single core athlon 64 right now.

Anyway I have a GF fx5200 card as well as a 6200 and a 8 series and I must say that the 5200 chokes on shader 2 code really bad. It's not to bad at shader 1.0 stuff but not too hot. If you are having trouble with Second Life it probably isn't your cpu it's probably the gpu. I think second life recomends a 6600 which probably means it uses shader 2 code.

[the_leander]

Bear in mind that the latter-day Pentium 4s (around the 3GHz mark, before and during prescott core) were a tactical disaster for Intel, and finally brought to an end the idea that the higher the GHz, the faster the processor. I think it needs Intel to make a mistake of that magnitude again for them to lose the performance crown a second time.

The only other factor that might make a difference is how Intel's anti-competitive behaviour against AMD has been brought to an end, for now. However, that end would have been to AMD's greatest advantage when the Athlon 64 was ruling the roost.

AMD buying ATi has proved to be an advantage for AMD since they started putting discrete graphics chipsets on-board, it helps them sell their wares as the value-for-money choice, but considering that the Intel Core 2 Quad still gives the best AMD has a run for their money, AMD has a lot of catching up to do.

Their 12 core chips however are something else altogether though. So far as I can see, Intel has nothing that can touch them in terms of raw processing power at anything like the price.

[trekiej]

I guess I need to go to the SL forums again to find out what they do.
I did log on to SL Beta 2 last night and it seems to calm down some if I sit a while.
If I go walking around the quad of the school it seems to put me back up to 100%, then it seems to calm down again.
I did adjust the video settings and it acted like it helped.
I think I will log on again to see how it feels.
lol

[Jose]

@koshman
"@ Jose: try updating your BIOS. A lot of the cheaper 770/785G mobos had problems when ACC was enabled even when the chip itself was not faulty (4th core only disabled) - they usually wouldn't even POST with the original BIOS when ACC was enabled. I've heard lots of reports where a newer BIOS revision solved this problem."

Tried everything already, thanks for the suggestions. I have an AsRock M3A790GXH which has the 790GX chipset. Got it by luck on eBay for 50€ around 6 months ago almost as an accident! It's normally listed as a board which can unlock the 4th core and has the right southbridge to do it.
AsRock has now new top of the range AM3 board so I guess they'll now stop adding "features" to the previous models...

José

[trekiej]

I decided to go quad-core. It seems Second Life Beta 2 is using both cores. This summer I do not think I will need SL beta 2.
I plan to go with an Athlon II X4 630 or similar.
I posted on SL forums and quad-core seems to be the way to go.

[koshman]

I'm thinking about buying the same CPU soon. I'm deciding between X4 630 and X3 435 - I know I probably won't use the 4th core, but I hate odd numbers... :)

[trekiej]

The three cores get me too.

[ElPolloDiabl]

The quad core runs quite a bit hotter than the triple core.

[trekiej]

What cooling system do you recommend?
I believe the Athlon II X4 runs 95w tdp.
My system had a 300 watt ps, then I went to 400 watt ps when I added a PNY Geforce GT 240.
Do I need to add a larger PS? I was going to go to 600 or 700 watts.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/athlon-ii-x2/Pages/AMD-athlon-ii-x2-processor-model-numbers-feature-comparison.aspx

[ElPolloDiabl]

The 650W power supplies look like good value. Just avoid the one or two nasty ones only output 400W (read the fine print).

The stock cooler is always good quality nowadays. That's all you need.

[trekiej]

thanks, looking to get a corsair or antec brand 650 watt ps.

[JJ]

Why waste your time on these rubbish processers. Why dont you spend you money paying people to port SLto amiga. Should run on all amigas including 500+. It will fly , everyone knows amigas are soooooo fast and PC are rubbish hardware and software :) :) :)

[ElPolloDiabl]

Why waste your time on these rubbish processers. Why dont you spend you money paying people to port SLto amiga. Should run on all amigas including 500+. It will fly , everyone knows amigas are soooooo fast and PC are rubbish hardware and software :) :) :)

Because starting up a multi core processor is like starting up jet fighter, the thing goes whizz, beep, shhhhh, whirrrrr!

[koshman]

You can invest in those higher end PSUs for stability and quiet operation, but as for power even 400W should totally be enough.

[trekiej]

This summer SL may no longer be a priority.
Upgrading may have to wait.

[KThunder]

Because starting up a multi core processor is like starting up jet fighter, the thing goes whizz, beep, shhhhh, whirrrrr!

I started up my amiga and agnus and denise were all pissed off because paula was making too much noise. Sweeeeet!

I wonder if anyone has ever made anime versions of the girls.

I wonder if I'm thinking about this a bit too much.

I need at least a dual core athlon II, but next purchase will probably be a new video card. preferably a geforce 9 series or better. I got most games required cpu but not the video card.

with psus its the 12v capability that really counts nowadays. I saw a 350watt a while ago (forgot the name) but it had 22 amps on the 12v line. The quality of the componants makes a huge difference in psus though. a cheap 500w might be worse than a 400w name brand, you get what you pay for.

[trekiej]

This might be an interesting project. Use a quad core machine to emulate 4 parts of the the Amiga. One for cpu and the rest for custom chips. I think this has been thought of before for multi-cpu system.

[KThunder]

There are some new emulators I think for wii and ps2 that multithread and can use multi cores. I think emulators are one app that should benefit from multicores alot.

[mikeymike]

I've built one system for a customer with a Phenom II X2 550 BE. I wasn't particularly happy with the fact that the processor ran significantly hotter (~40C idle) than a Phenom II X4 945, a Phenom II X3 710 or any Athlon II X2 I've used (the rest about 30C idle). In hindsight it seems almost unbelievable that the CPU fan span faster on that processor than any of the others I've used in system builds, yet the CPU temp was higher, but I definitely remember thinking "that's the last time I use that processor". Every time I was using retail CPUs, which all have the same HSF.

Next time I'm with that customer's computer, I'll check the fan speed and temps. Admittedly the fan speed wasn't high enough to be irritating (all the other systems run virtually silent, to the point that I can hear the booting beep echo inside the case).

I agree with koshman that pretty much any 400W PSU will be fine, though I tend to invest in the better ones because they're quieter, and because a failing PSU can sometimes take the board with it, and I believe a better quality PSU is less likely to fail.

[ElPolloDiabl]

This might be an interesting project. Use a quad core machine to emulate 4 parts of the the Amiga. One for cpu and the rest for custom chips. I think this has been thought of before for multi-cpu system.

You will have to wait for the UAE guy to get around to it. Or design something yourself.
What we need is new approach to programming for 4 or more cores. Burn all the old programming books and rewrite them with multicore CPUs in mind.

[trekiej]

I believe I asked about that a while back. I think he said it was not possible.
It would be cool to make a c program of each chip and then use get them to talk to each other, maybe use Arex.
I heard of making applications with scripting languages that tie or bind c programs together.

[JJ]

I agree 1000% the only part of a pc that you realy do need to spend decent money in on the PSU. I have learnt this after buying cheaper PSU's that are rated 600w, but will not push out much amps. £60 to £70 you need to spend.

As regards to emualtion. I thought multi-core did not make sense for emualtion if you wanted exact timing ?

[trekiej]

As Yoda might say, a good power supply you need. Skimp not.

[koshman]

Agreed. Although I don't think it's necessary to spend that much - here you can buy OEM Seasonic Energy Knight units for less than half of that - <30GBP for 400W. That's with active PFC, 80+ certification etc. Also Fortrons (Green Power) are said to be good and those can be had for even less. I would expect the prices in the rest of Europe/USA to be even lower.

[trekiej]

I plan to buy the chip first, but hope it does no damage by any overloading.

[JJ]

To be fair not bought a PSU in a few years so the decent ones have probably come down in price. I jsut remeber it was worth getting one with at least two seperate 12v rails

[ElPolloDiabl]

I ordered a Radeon 5750. It looks like a lot of bang for your buck, I'll let you know how it performs on tuesday.

[Karlos]

I ordered a Radeon 5750. It looks like a lot of bang for your buck, I'll let you know how it performs on tuesday.

I recently built a friend a system with a 1GB 5770. It's about on a par performance wise with my old nVidia GTX260 (currently using a GTX275, long and sordid story), but of course does DX11 tessellation and is thus a bit more future compatible. Not at all a bad card and quite reasonably priced.

[trekiej]

unfortunately my board goes to 89 watts. I guess I will stick with the Athlon II X4.

[trekiej]

I bought a Phenom II X2 555 and was able to unlock the extra cores with an MSI 890GXM-G65. You need a Bios version of 1.2 or greater. I have the 1.6 version of the bios.

[Piru]

I've built one system for a customer with a Phenom II X2 550 BE. I wasn't particularly happy with the fact that the processor ran significantly hotter (~40C idle) than a Phenom II X4 945, a Phenom II X3 710 or any Athlon II X2 I've used (the rest about 30C idle). In hindsight it seems almost unbelievable that the CPU fan span faster on that processor than any of the others I've used in system builds, yet the CPU temp was higher, but I definitely remember thinking "that's the last time I use that processor".
http://sintonen.fi/pics/cooler.jpg
PASSIVE COOLING
Who needs friggin' fans!?

[trekiej]

Wow, I had a fan a while back for a amd 2800+, it was pretty big, but not that big.
I have not really looked at my temps lately. 4 cores for 88 dollars is good to me.
I have a Cooler Master Elite 342 case. I am not crazy about the heat sink size and want to upgrade to something that can handle overclocking. I wish it was cooler running and I wish I could get a 900e series Phenom instead, but my paycheck is not much these days.

[trekiej]

@Piru
Is that heat sink really necessary or did the owner want some peace and quiet?

1000 posts

[koshman]

And, maybe more importantly, does he use the board placed horizontally in a desktop case? :D Such a heatsink surely must break off as soon as you pick up the mobo and place it vertically....

EDIT: Congrats on your 1000th post, trekiej :)

[Piru]

@Piru
Is that heat sink really necessary or did the owner want some peace and quiet?
The CPU is Intel® CoreTM2 Q9550 @ 3.4GHz. The gfxcard is passive GeForce 9500GT. The only fans in the system are in the Nexus Clodius (http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-nexusclodiusventilationsystem.htm) case. I can easily run the case fans at the lowest setting (1000rpm) and the CPU cores stay at around 42 degrees max at full 4 core load. There no HDD, but SSD SATA2 drive.

I have similar setup for the router/fileserver, except that it has Intel® CoreTM2 E6350 @ 2.8GHz and the cheapest PCI-E gfxcard I could find. In addition SSD SATA2 system drive the router/fileserver has 3TB RAID-5 setup.

I like my systems quiet.

[trekiej]

My old AMD 2800+ is a vacuum cleaner.