Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?

[stevieu]

Adding further to the riddles provided, today was a day to release more information on the hardware involved in Hyperion's 'Most Ambitious Project'.

"At the start of this journey, we posed the question 'what is X?' The answer is that X is many things. X is the Xena/XMOS chip, and the Xorro slot that accompanies it. X is the mystery CPU, and above all, X is the AmigaOne X1000, the new complete desktop computer system from A-EON.

It's almost 25 years since Commodore released the A1000 model that launched the line in the summer of 1985, and with the launch of the X1000 we will usher in a new beginning for the AmigaOS platform. Just as Commodore did with the A1000, we're aiming at the high-end first, with a powerful desktop computer aimed at the professional and serious hobbyist markets (although you won't have to wait until summer, and it should be a little cheaper!)"

Read more at A-EON.com (http://a-eon.com/6.html)

[Pyromania]

Story already hit OSNEWS.

http://www.osnews.com/story/22693/New_Amiga_Sports_Programmable_Co-Processor_Dualcore_PPC

[DaNi]

AmigaOne X1000 Specs

ATX Formfactor
Dual-core PowerISA™ v2.04+ CPU
"Xena" XMOS XS1-L1 128 SDS
7.1 channel HD audio
4x DDR2 RAM slots
10x USB 2.0
1x Gigabit Ethernet
2x PCIe x16 slots (1x16 or 2x8)
2x PCIe x1 slots
1x Xorro slot
2x PCI legacy slots
2x RS232
4x SATA 2 connectors
1x IDE connector
JTAG connector
1x Compact Flash

CPU:

We are under strict instructions from the 'highers-up' not to reveal the CPU yet. For this, we can only apologise, and give you those details that we can reveal at this moment in time.

The AmigaOne X generation will come with a variety of CPUs, conforming to the Power ISA 2.04 and newer standards. The X1000 processor currently has very limited availability, and you've probably never seen one in the wild, so don't worry too much about it. For now, please be content with knowing that it's a dual-core Power Architecture™ CPU, with a very low Thermal Design Point. For reference, our designers have been running the cores at 1.6GHz during thermal testing, but this isn't the exact nominal clock speed.

Custom Chips:

The Nemo designers had a brilliant idea: "Why not add an XMOS chip?" Once, there were custom chips; for the AmigaOne X generation, we have customisable chips. XMOS calls it "Software Defined Silicon", we call it 'Xena', a nod to the old custom chip names. It's the inheritor of the 'transputer' concept, and it's something we're quite excited about.

Xorro:

To accompany 'Xena', we have 'Xorro', a new slot using an industry-standard PCIe x8 form factor to give access to the 'Xena' IO. This will be the route to Xena's 64 IO lines, which are dynamically configurable as input, output, or bidirectional. 'Xorro' will allow bridging Xena to external hardware for control purposes, to internal systems, or to other Xcore processors. This last point is worth more exploration; XCore is a parallel processing architecture, and if you want more power, you can simply chain more XCores together. Reference boards have been made with up to 256 cores, offering a theoretical 102400 MIPS. Those of you interested in high-end imaging or scientific applications, for example, take note.


Capable of eight concurrent real-time threads with shared memory space, at up to 400 MIPS (about 6 68060s worth), Xena gives the X1000 a very flexible, very expandable co-processor. The uses are endless; control hardware, DSP functions, robotics, display - even SID chip and console emulators. The Amiga has seen some truly ingenious hacks and add-ons; Xena can take this to a whole new level. It will take a while for the full possibilities to be realised, but we urge you to visit XMOS and discover more for yourselves

PD: This is the best notice to the amiga community!!! Amiga4Ever!!!!

[SamuraiCrow]

https://www.xmos.com/products/xs1-l-family/l1lq64 is the information on the Xena chip. Note the prices at the right-hand column of the page.

[pan1k]

But does it have a clock port? I kid, i kid! lol..

[save2600]

<----- getting a rise in the Levis with this news :lol:

[Crom00]

You gotta hand it to them. They really have thought about it and it looks like they're implementing the cool things that never made it into Amigas...

such as: modern Faster CPU
DSP style functions:
Industry standard parts and custom chip capability that can kind of behave like Dave Hanies Transuputer (I think that was it) and overall cool things that never saw the light of day.

[cicero790]

Another chapter of the most legendary and peculiar history of any computer on earth is written before our very eyes. Can't wait for more info. 2010 starts with a super nova.

[Delta]

Funny how the osnews thread turned into a good ol' PC vs Amiga discussion like in the old days. :)

Too bad a lot of narrow-minded persons still see computing in raw speed like some do for cars. All I'd want is a new machine that is really fun to use and will last more than 3 years before I want to change it. I just couldn't have the "Amiga-ish" feeling with all the PCs I got no matter the badass gfx card or CPUs. I blamed myself for being a grown up with no more magic in his eyes but in fact its due to the boring hardware.

I'll be the perfect customer for such a computer if the software available meets all my demands. (Common Net apps, office suite, 2D & 3D games, media (editing and burning) The rest will be candy.

[persia]

Yeah, a computer that doesn't look like 1999... Now for the price, OS News claims at a price less than A1000 originally, but they were coy using 1985 dollars so I'm not sure what that means...

If it comes out to a thousand 2010 US dollars it's going to be quite a tough decision for me to choose between the Mac Tablet and the X1000...

[LoadWB]

My biggest concern is hardware compatibility. Those PCIe ports are great but ultimately meaningless if you don't have drivers for more than a mere handful of obscure PCIe expansions.

[Pete_Noir]

Hmm.. I wonder if this could actually end up cheaper or at least about the same price as the Sam, that is if the CPU they have chosen is more readily available & cheaper.

I hope so.. this looks like it will be an amazing machine and I think Hyperion will be great new leaders for the Amiga, but personally I just want something decent to run OS4.1+ on. I'm dying to try OS4 out, but I can't justify spending £650 on a Sam system. I would happily pay £500 for this though.

Or maybe I shouldn't get my hopes up ;/

[Delta]

I guess the price is the biggest worry for all of us. I've been used to build myself a new PC every 2-3 years whitout spending more than $700 (no monitor) and it did the job. If this new Amiga costs over $1000 but does everything we want for 7+ years like the old models did then its another thing.

I have difficulties to believe in any hardware that last these days, i'm so used to trash or resell all my stuff regularly! The only electronical device I kept for more than 10 years was actually an Amiga!

Now they seem to be telling they will sell a complete system which means custom case & custom keyboard/mouse. These are expensive (look at apple) so I would expect paying around $1200 for the whole deal and be ok with it.

I don't own any game console, cell phone, ipod or whatever so investing in this computer is something I would consider.

[Tumbleweed]

I guess the price is the biggest worry for all of us. I've been used to build myself a new PC every 2-3 years whitout spending more than $700 (no monitor) and it did the job. If this new Amiga costs over $1000 but does everything we want for 7+ years like the old models did then its another thing.

I have difficulties to believe in any hardware that last these days, i'm so used to trash or resell all my stuff regularly! The only electronical device I kept for more than 10 years was actually an Amiga!

Now they seem to be telling they will sell a complete system which means custom case & custom keyboard/mouse. These are expensive (look at apple) so I would expect paying around $1200 for the whole deal and be ok with it.

I don't own any game console, cell phone, ipod or whatever so investing in this computer is something I would consider.

Pricing is going to be a huge factor in determining whether I fork out for one of these. My first Amiga A500 cost £299 plus extra for the A520 modulator. My A4000D 030 6MB Ram, 85MB Hard Drive with Final Writer cost me £1200 in 1994. The top-end Sam on Amiga Kit 1GB Ram 733Mhz costs £743.20. The Sam is described as "entry level" vs the X1000. I reckon a price point of £999 - £1200 is likely depending on configuration. For this amount of money you can get a macbook pro (£918), a macbookair (£1174) or a iMac (£969). Admittedly these are all base models so I'm not comparing apples with apples, but even so the X1000 has got its work cut out, compounded by the lack of killer software like high end video editing, photoshop etc. So are there going to be more announcements on the software front?

Weed

[NovaCoder]

Where does this leave ACube....out in the cold? What about all the recent SAM buyers, how are they going to feel when/if Hyperion drop support (as per Classic 4.0 users).

Oh well, at least it keeps things interesting :)

I just hope they can get this new HW out cheap AND have it supported by OS4 (eg drivers and a non-beta release) quickly.

Any chance of a back-plate?

[klx300r]

Nah we Sam owners are just fine and is ACube as the X1000 is priced as 'high' end Amiga (probably cost double the Sam) and the Sams will be considered low end so there will always be a market for the Sams :-)
Now Hyperion PLEASE give us our OS4.1 UPDATE ...

[Tripitaka]

2 PCIeX16 slots............. for GFX cards? Crossfire? SLI? Oh my, I just wet myself!
I need to go and lay down.

All we need now is for "Chaos Engine the remake" to be an OS4 exclusive and my life will be complete.

[x303]

Looks very impressive.
I think this processor fits all the fancy X names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_%28processor%29
Hope they're gonna use something like it.

x303 :D :D :D

[MskoDestny]

Looks very impressive.
I think this processor fits all the fancy X names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_%28processor%29
Hope they're gonna use something like it.

It's most certainly not that. It's a dual core processor conforming to Power Architecture 2.04. If Wikipedia is to believed the only processors conforming to that spec are the PA6T from PA Semi and the AMCC Titan. Xenon is only Power Architecture 2.03. Since PA Semi got bought by Apple, the Titan seems like the most likely candidate. I suppose something with the e500mc core in the QorIQ from Freescale woud technically fit the description too (it conforms to Power Architecture 2.06 which is a superset of 2.04).

[smerf]

Hi,

@all Amiga fanatics,

I am not getting my hopes up yet, been through this too many times since Commodore went under. Saw too much vapor hardware in the past.

If the X1000 does come out, I will wait and see on what the outcome will be.
Will software companies embrace it?
Will the expermental software writers go to it?
Will we have new graphic and sound demos?
Will Fred Fish come back?
How about the rag mags?

Yes I want a new Amiga, I want a good OS, I want the feel of the old Amiga 1000, if it has all this and supports todays modern features, I want it and will probably buy it. I can't wait to get out of Microsofts rule, and their wanting to tell me what I can or cannot do with my computer (and believe me, Microsoft wants to own you and your computer, they want to be able to turn it off at their will, by saying you are not following the rules).

So yes promise me a new computer, I want it.

smerf

[mongo]

Will Fred Fish come back?


He's dead. You don't come back from that.

[arnljot]

Will software companies embrace it?
Will the expermental software writers go to it?
Will we have new graphic and sound demos?
Will Fred Fish come back?
How about the rag mags?

>Will software companies embrace it?

No, not until it sells a certain number of units or show some unique hardware implementation.

>Will the expermental software writers go to it?

Perhaps, who knows?

>Will we have new graphic and sound demos?

Don't think so. Most amiga demo coders are 68k assembly true to their bone. Nothing much has been written for OS4 or SAM.

>Will Fred Fish come back?

That would scare me. He is RIP.

>How about the rag mags?

We have Amiga Future. No new magazines will come before Amiga Future proves there is a market.

New hardware won't do it alone. It's also up to the community too, coders and users to make this happen. But also Hyperion has to give out development machines.

[Crom00]

Hmm.. I wonder if this could actually end up cheaper or at least about the same price as the Sam, that is if the CPU they have chosen is more readily available & cheaper. /

If the fully configured system matches the price of a SAM I'll be in there like swimwear!

[Delta]

With today's tools I can easily see big titles converted for this architecture if the market is interesting for some game makers. It would be a good move from them to sell the X1000 with some software, not just an OS. Like the A1200 bundle was. Some office apps, a few games and there you have a lot of happy geeks :)

[Crom00]

With today's tools I can easily see big titles converted for this architecture if the market is interesting for some game makers. It would be a good move from them to sell the X1000 with some software, not just an OS. Like the A1200 bundle was. Some office apps, a few games and there you have a lot of happy geeks :)

It's cool to see an AMIGA system that can support NextGen games... AND support retro like no other..!

[Dr_Righteous]

What catches my attention, and what I believe makes this setup far superior to all other attempts so far, is Xorro and Xena.

Think about all of the devices the community has hacked together for our beloved Amiga Zorro slots and clock ports. This is "come hack me" hardware built into the design! Pure genius!

Sorry, had that early-90's geek excitement stir up. I don't get that feeling very often these days.

[Tension]

will fred fish come back?


fail

[Argo]

Will Fred Fish come back?

That would scare me. He is RIP.

No, Fred Fish is not dead. He just went home.

[Everblue]

If the fully configured system matches the price of a SAM I'll be in there like swimwear!

It wont match the price of a SAM... as Hyperion said it, SAM = entry level machine, in otherwords its the lower specced, cheaper way to get an OS4.1 machine.

Now if SAM is low specced and cheap. I am afraid to ask whats the high specced gonna cost.

[Haranguer]

I'm not expecting it to be cheap. If it's too expensive, well, I can always get a second mortgage on my house ;-) I would consider selling my family into slavery to raise the money, but I don't think anyone would want them ...

Seriously, though, this is amazing news. I haven't been this excited since 1985.

[koaftder]

I'm not expecting it to be cheap. If it's too expensive, well, I can always get a second mortgage on my house ;-) I would consider selling my family into slavery to raise the money, but I don't think anyone would want them ...

Seriously, though, this is amazing news. I haven't been this excited since 1985.

Do yourself a favor an stroke it for two jabs and release. We're just getting a new mobo with a faster ppc and some stupid processor on a bus that has 64k sram and doesn't do floating point in hardware.

[mingle]

@koaftder,

Don't be so damn cynical - it also has 10 of those new-fangled USB ports! :-)

Mike.

[xeron]

My biggest concern is hardware compatibility. Those PCIe ports are great but ultimately meaningless if you don't have drivers for more than a mere handful of obscure PCIe expansions.

RadeonHD cards are obscure? ;-)

[cv643d]

I am trying... -really, really hard- not to say anything negative... I really am (believe me) :)

But so far (ok, its only been 1 day), I have not found a single reason why this X-chip will be of any benefit for an end user such as myself, I am no hardware hacker or programmer. It would be cool if you could implement the AGA chipset in the x-chip, but I guess 64kb is not enough for that?

The reason why its better to have a chip than software is that the chip is clock-exact, but I have not found a reason why having a clock-exact chip thingie on the motherboard is good to have when you are a desktop user.

ok.. . I should not. .. It's not as if I **** on this new motherboard, It is nice to see progress so that there are more alternatives to running Workbench..

But if you somehow could implement an x86 core on the X-chip? Then you could run a Wine-like application in AmigaOS PPC "built on the true sources of the only Workbench source", you would be able to run quite a lot of apps then (that was actually one of my main reasons for wanting AmigaOS ported to x86, you would somehow probably be able to run Windows apps such as on the Mac with Paralells).

So, who is going to implement the 3GHz x86 core in the X-chip?

[Tomas]

I am trying... -really, really hard- not to say anything negative... I really am (believe me) :)

But so far (ok, its only been 1 day), I have not found a single reason why this X-chip will be of any benefit for an end user such as myself, I am no hardware hacker or programmer. It would be cool if you could implement the AGA chipset in the x-chip, but I guess 64kb is not enough for that?

Software could be coded to take advantage out of the chip and this would be a benefit to users owning this system. You dont need to be a programmer to get some advantage out of the chip...

[xeron]

@CV643D

The biggest advantage is that its a cheap chip, so it won't add much to the cost of the board, so "why not". Since it IS a cheap chip, and any task you get it to do will likely be parallelised, you can scale up your process by throwing more cheap xmos chips at it via the xorro slot for an instant gain.

On the other hand, one nifty thing it could do is provide a Catweasel like floppy controller with nothing more than a passive adaptor from the xorro slot to standard floppy connector, for example.

[cv643d]

@CV643D

The biggest advantage is that its a cheap chip, so it won't add much to the cost of the board, so "why not". Since it IS a cheap chip, and any task you get it to do will likely be parallelised, you can scale up your process by throwing more cheap xmos chips at it via the xorro slot for an instant gain.


x86 chips are cheap too, so why not add a socket 478 to the motherboard, then the cost of the x86 chip is in the hands of the owner of the motherboard (socket 478 chips are essentially free these days). With a slave x86 chip on the motherboard all kind of exciting things could have been made? Am I wrong here? Why not an x86 socket on the mobo too?

Or maybe you can do it with the x-connector? Ahh... I see now I understand ;)

[Crom00]

Wish Hyperion all the best and hope to have one of these babies soon.
See yall when product ships.

[dammy]

Software could be coded to take advantage out of the chip and this would be a benefit to users owning this system. You dont need to be a programmer to get some advantage out of the chip...

Exactly what are the benefits for this chip for the average computer user? If you do not need to be a programmer to get advantages out of this chip, what can it do without code to run on it? I just don't see it. It's more like that useless FPGA for desktop that comes with the SAM440. Best guess for the SAM440, it was intended for embedded and got shoehorned into being a new Amiga mobo. I have a feeling this X1000 has the same history behind it, it was ment for the embedded market but now is being rebadged for Amiga market.

One has to wonder if the price for this X1000 going to be so high, it's going to increase Acube sales as it may then look like reasonably priced cpu/mobo? Nice piece of marketing if that is the original plan.

[wawrzon]

sofar i have seen xmos chips might be used to controll lcd display modules, say large lcd displays could be controlled by clusters of these chips. if there is going to be any easy out of the box solution for achieving something like that using amigaos and this mobo (and maybe hollywood) it might be interesting for me. i see no other advantage atm.

[SamuraiCrow]

sofar i have seen xmos chips might be used to controll lcd display modules, say large lcd displays could be controlled by clusters of these chips. if there is going to be any easy out of the box solution for achieving something like that using amigaos and this mobo (and maybe hollywood) it might be interesting for me. i see no other advantage atm.

With a few custom interrupt handlers, anything interrupt driven will be accelerated by the new Xena chip. The fact that it doesn't have to store its registers while processing those interrupts will make it preferred over other interrupt solutions.

[dammy]

sofar i have seen xmos chips might be used to controll lcd display modules, say large lcd displays could be controlled by clusters of these chips. if there is going to be any easy out of the box solution for achieving something like that using amigaos and this mobo (and maybe hollywood) it might be interesting for me. i see no other advantage atm.

Might be interesting to find out who originally produced this mother board and what they intended it to be used for.

[jorkany]

Do yourself a favor an stroke it for two jabs and release. We're just getting a new mobo with a faster ppc and some stupid processor on a bus that has 64k sram and doesn't do floating point in hardware.

I guess the intended solution to this is to add more XMOS chips. What I'm not clear on is how this is supposed to happen. You can't just attach a bin and dump a few chips into it, after all. Does XMOS sell a board that plugs into the Xorro slot? I doubt it. PCIe?

[wawrzon]

@dammy: you imply that it was built as a controller unit already? one way or the other it doesnt bother me much, only if it could be of actual use for me like my a4k's and genlock equipped 1k2's were up till now, without thinkering with it too much.
@ samuraicrow: thats just too much detail for me. im just plain an artist.;/ but i have a friend who is able to build lcd displays, alas an ibm_pc freak. maybe i could convince him to use an amiga for my puroposes if this really had some technical advantage. guess here a-eon hardware prople are the only ones who might answer.

i must say at the beginning i thought this new design might be something what most amigans wanted, but now i hesitate again. i just dont see what an average user could get out of that.

[MskoDestny]

With a few custom interrupt handlers, anything interrupt driven will be accelerated by the new Xena chip. The fact that it doesn't have to store its registers while processing those interrupts will make it preferred over other interrupt solutions.
I don't get the impression that it can handle interrupts on the main machine. It can handle changes to its I/O lines in an interrupt like fashion, but since all of its I/O lines are hooked up to the Xorro slot that presumably means that none are hooked up to the rest of the hardware on the board (which makes sense since the CPU is probably a SoC with most of the other harware like the ethernet, USB and PCIe controllers on the same chip). Presumably the connection between the XCore and the CPU is via the XCore's JTAG interface.

As a result, I doubt it will be useful for much without some kind of Xorro card unless you have some processing to offload that will fit in 64KB of RAM.

[yoodoo]

The XCore chip proposed atm is the lower end version, that, and the Xorro slot suggests to me it's meant to be treated like the Clockport on the A1200 or the expansion slot of the A500. The onboard XCore will therefore mostly handle I/O and communication between add on boards and the OS.

But, seeing the price of the xcore chips and the fact that the Xorro slot is in a standard format, suggests that add-on boards could be built pretty cheaply.

Eg imagine an add-on board to run the lights/sound equipment of a small theatre. Because of the nature of XCore, timings are going to be good, and you could scale the whole thing up by simply adding another board.

[jorkany]

But, seeing the price of the xcore chips and the fact that the Xorro slot is in a standard format, suggests that add-on boards could be built pretty cheaply.

Eg imagine an add-on board to run the lights/sound equipment of a small theatre. Because of the nature of XCore, timings are going to be good, and you could scale the whole thing up by simply adding another board.

Or you could just buy something like this for $200 and scale up by plugging additional units into another USB port. On *any* computer.
http://www.dmxsoft.com/details.php?id_pro=LDNANO&cat_pro=28

Things were different in the 1980s, you couldn't just buy anything to add on to your computer. Nowdays you'd struggle to come up with a project that somebody else hasn't already refined and mass produced for use with a bog-standard PC at a fraction of the cost you could build it yourself. Even the X1000 falls into this category, look at all the video cards that support CUDA.

[Boudicca]

I am trying... -really, really hard- not to say anything negative... I really am (believe me) :)

But so far (ok, its only been 1 day), I have not found a single reason why this X-chip will be of any benefit for an end user such as myself, I am no hardware hacker or programmer.

Hmmm Not a bad point. Then again, 99% of all "users" have no facility to learn, thats why when Mr Dyson says regarding innovation is "After the idea, there is plenty of time to learn the technology". Yet the current tools required to innovate are exclusive and prevent true discovery or are locked to prevent competitors.

An Amiga was and will be a way for people to learn and innovate.

[billt]

My biggest concern is hardware compatibility. Those PCIe ports are great but ultimately meaningless if you don't have drivers for more than a mere handful of obscure PCIe expansions.

I've always hated this kind of argument. Where would you like things to begin, have the driver writers working before they have a slot to plug anything into and test? Hans's Radeon drivers should work on whatever chips he already supports in PCI form. (board has PCIe Radeon and PCIe-PCI slot bridge chip) I'll assume that there will be drivers for anything built into the board. And there's a couple old-school PCI-32 slots to use. To me it makes a lot more sense to start with providing PCI-Express slots, then add some patience for driver coders to catch up. And I expect drivers to be provided for stuff on the motherboard, which I do guess to be via a PCI-Express connection.

(My guess is CPU SOC PCIe to what I guess to be an SB600 southbridge, which contains a bridge to PCI32 for those slots, PCI32 to the FPGA, and FPGA to the Xcore, and Xcore to the Xorro, possiblly also FPGA to the Xorro, but that is all just a guess)

[billt]

The XCore chip proposed atm is the lower end version, that, and the Xorro slot suggests to me it's meant to be treated like the Clockport on the A1200 or the expansion slot of the A500. The onboard XCore will therefore mostly handle I/O and communication between add on boards and the OS.


Consider a cheapo PCB to connect a clockport header to the Xorro slot... :)

[billt]

I guess the intended solution to this is to add more XMOS chips. What I'm not clear on is how this is supposed to happen. You can't just attach a bin and dump a few chips into it, after all. Does XMOS sell a board that plugs into the Xorro slot? I doubt it. PCIe?

Someone will make a Xorro board. I will be suprised if not. What does XMOS want you to use a Xorro board for? What do you want to use it for? There will probably be a number of choices, to provide different kinds of IO at the rear. Ethernet ports? Audio connectors? Midi? Xcore based Minimig port connectors? Joystick? Clock Port? Floppy port?

[Dr_Righteous]

Someone will make a Xorro board. I will be suprised if not. What does XMOS want you to use a Xorro board for? What do you want to use it for? There will probably be a number of choices, to provide different kinds of IO at the rear. Ethernet ports? Audio connectors? Midi? Xcore based Minimig port connectors? Joystick? Clock Port? Floppy port?

Of course they will. I'm sure Jens Schoenfeld is salivating at this very moment.

[Gavilan]

Pardon my total ignorance...but..will this new "Super Amiga" will be backwards compatible? (I mean, capable of playing all Amiga OS 3X software?). Will it be in fomr of some "emulator" built-in or something like that?

[Hans_]

My biggest concern is hardware compatibility. Those PCIe ports are great but ultimately meaningless if you don't have drivers for more than a mere handful of obscure PCIe expansions.

Those should come once the hardware is out. There will be existing PCI hardware that has PCIe versions; since the registers are in the same place, the existing drivers will cope nicely. As for new hardware, well I've been working on some drivers for a while now (http://hdrlab.org.nz/radeonhd-driver/). Right now the cards I'm using have a PCI-to-PCIe bridge on them so that they plug into my A1, but I'm looking forward to being able to use PCIe directly. It's going to take a while before these graphics cards are fully used, but I'm making progress (http://hdrlab.org.nz/radeonhd-development-log/).

Hans

[arnljot]

Of course they will. I'm sure Jens Schoenfeld is salivating at this very moment.

Nothing more than what is the case with current OS4 I would suspect.

[Hans_]

Or you could just buy something like this for $200 and scale up by plugging additional units into another USB port. On *any* computer.
http://www.dmxsoft.com/details.php?id_pro=LDNANO&cat_pro=28

The USB port would add extra latency which may or may not matter.

Things were different in the 1980s, you couldn't just buy anything to add on to your computer. Nowdays you'd struggle to come up with a project that somebody else hasn't already refined and mass produced for use with a bog-standard PC at a fraction of the cost you could build it yourself. Even the X1000 falls into this category, look at all the video cards that support CUDA.

Yet, some crazy people still build stuff themselves, just for kicks.

Hans

[motorollin]

Pardon my total ignorance...but..will this new "Super Amiga" will be backwards compatible? (I mean, capable of playing all Amiga OS 3X software?). Will it be in fomr of some "emulator" built-in or something like that?

AFAIK OS4 doesn't provide backwards compatibility in terms of custom chip emulation and transparent execution of classic software. My hope is that the X1000 will include classic Amiga custom chip emulation as part of the Xena chipset or whatever it is, and that this will be supported in software to provide transparent classic support.

--
moto

[arnljot]

OS4 runs 68k system friendly software. Some says MOS does this better. I don't know, but in theory it's supposed to be the same level of compatability.

But anything that tries to tap paula or denise directly will fail.

[cv643d]

An Amiga was and will be a way for people to learn and innovate.

Yes, I can see what you mean back when a color Macintosh cost 9000 dollars and the "toaster" was the reason for existance for the Amiga in the US. Then a kid with a 500 dollar Amiga 500 could do cooler stuff with less dineros and that was shocking and cool.

But honestly for most kids with an A500 here in Sweden, Amiga was just a way to get free games in excess from all your friends in school, then those without life failed to hop on the 486 bandwagon when 1995 came and became addicts of Amiga for the rest of their life :)

[NovaCoder]

It wont match the price of a SAM... as Hyperion said it, SAM = entry level machine, in otherwords its the lower specced, cheaper way to get an OS4.1 machine.

It looks to me like the SAM will be replaced with a lower-cost version of this new HW....

[Tron2k2]

In the other one of these threads, I specualated that the teaser animation on their page was an anagram for Amiga One, and perhaps they were going to make an 'actually working' version. I was right :-)

This looks like a great machine, if it delivers, I'll be stoked :-) Here's hoping!

[Nlandas]

I am trying... -really, really hard- not to say anything negative... I really am (believe me) :)

So don't man, we'll never have another jump the same as the classic Amigas again but this is certainly something different than a plain jane PC or Mac motherboard. ;^)



But if you somehow could implement an x86 core on the X-chip? Then you could run a Wine-like application in AmigaOS PPC "built on the true sources of the only Workbench source", you would be able to run quite a lot of apps then (that was actually one of my main reasons for wanting AmigaOS ported to x86, you would somehow probably be able to run Windows apps such as on the Mac with Paralells).


If I want to run Windows software I'll use a Windows computer, they are cheap enough now. Although, PCIe bridegboard anyone? AMD chips are cheap enough to put a whole system on a card. ;^)

I do agree that ultimately it would seem to make sense to work towards porting AmigaOS to the x64 processor line. (AMD/Intel) This new board does offer us a good option for running AmigaOS as it stands now and it will be sold as a complete computer again.

That's real progress, yes - it's been far too long but I for one am excited to see a company trying to bring some new ideas to the table and it will be great to see my beloved OS back on a commercially available computer. I don't think we really know what the programmable chip will be good for, there have always been creative people in the Amiga community. I'm interested to see what they come up with.

Since the Xorro slot allows you to add up to 254 more of the programmable chips, it could be really interesting. 8^)

[TheMagicM]

I think this is very interesting. Competition certainly is good.

[coldfish]

Great news for the "enthusiast" community.

Business as usual for everyone else.

[mingle]

@coldfish +1

Exactly... It'll no doubt be a boost for the enthusiasts who like this sort of system, but for the rest of the computing world it'll (unfortunately) be just as relevant as the AmigaOne, Sam, Efika or Minimig...

I'm guessing (a BIG guess, knowing nothing about pricing atm , but...) total sales would be in the sub-1000 region, so it will remain a hobbyist box...

Not saying I won't get one though! :-)

Cheers,

Mike.

[runequester]

Great news for the "enthusiast" community.

Business as usual for everyone else.

Most people prefer their computing to be bland and boring I guess :)

[mingle]

I think most people don't care about their computing platform, so long as they can surf the next, type up a few letters and sync to their iPod... Blandness and/or boredom aren't an issue,,

All of the non-techie/dweebies I know think of their PCs as nothing more than a tool - in the same way as their DVD player, fridge and microwave... They aren't interested in the OS, the hardware or anything, as long as it works when they turn it on...

It's only really people who are interested in the underlying technology who's interest will be piqued by the X1000...

Mike.

[Golem!dk]

It's only really people who are interested in the underlying technology who's interest will be piqued by the X1000...
Now if they would tell what that technology is... can't say I care much this silly game they're playing.

[zylesea]

Of course they will. I'm sure Jens Schoenfeld is salivating at this very moment.

Why putting those things on Xorro when a usb or pci will do, too. And usb and pci is ubiquoteous, i.e. the potential target groups contains millions of customers while a Xorro borad will target a few hundered...

[mikeymike]

Hopefully they have a niche to aim this new computer at, or are planning to revolutionise general computing. Otherwise, I think they're just trying to cater for a dwindling fanbase.

[persia]

The appear to have a niche they're going for, hobbyists who want something different, as far as I can see...

[Daedalus]

I think most people don't care about their computing platform, so long as they can surf the next, type up a few letters and sync to their iPod... Blandness and/or boredom aren't an issue,,

All of the non-techie/dweebies I know think of their PCs as nothing more than a tool - in the same way as their DVD player, fridge and microwave... They aren't interested in the OS, the hardware or anything, as long as it works when they turn it on...

It's only really people who are interested in the underlying technology who's interest will be piqued by the X1000...

Mike.

I'm very much a techie, and I consider a Windows PC to be just a tool :-) I need it every day for some stuff, but would gladly do without it. Amiga OTOH I actually enjoy using so that's the difference for me...

[Crom00]

It's clear that Hyperion are in the hardware business now. I wish them well. It will be interesting to see if they allow manufacturers to make Amiga OS4 lones.

I salivate at the prospect of a Chinese Amiga. We all know that the Chinese manufacturers value the lowest cost and despite some high profile bludners... they do value quality.

In the 90's there were attempts at Amiga clones, hope this comes to pass after Hyperion have made a return on their investment.

[Skyraker]

He's dead. You don't come back from that.

I loled...... sorry.

[MarkTime]

"I am trying... -really, really hard- not to say anything negative... I really am "

Not me. Rumours don't build excitement, I could care less about this vaporware. Frankly they thought of it one night, and posted a story about it the next. This is still in the pipe dream phase of the project.

Now, I admit over the years, these companies from time to time do release a software update - unfortunately the direction they went with OS 4 was a tragic mistake. Still a horrible OS after all this time, and always will be, they punted on the opportunity to correct its shortcomings.

But as they do sometimes release an OS, and sometimes a hardware partner does surface for a few months to sell a few hundred boards... maybe we will see something, but until that day....BORING.

[EDS.bod]

i must say at the beginning i thought this new design might be something what most amigans wanted, but now i hesitate again. i just dont see what an average user could get out of that.

I don't think the average user WILL get anything extra out of the design that they can't get out of a SAM already. But then, the X1000 isn't really intended for the average user.

Those who can't see what's special about the new design - well - you simply need to exercise your imagination a bit (or alot more) more. I really hate the phrase but you really need to think outside the box on this one. Programmers had to change their techniques to really make the most of the Amiga's custom chipset (remember the bog stndard Atari to Amiga p[orts in the early days) - it's going to be the same here. Those asking for more info from A-EON about what the design can do - as already hinted by the designers, don't ask them, ask yourself.

You'll find out what it can do when the hardware is in the hands of us coders.

Why putting those things on Xorro when a usb or pci will do, too.

Do you want a "meh, it'll do" solution or a "Jesus - that's perfect" solution?

Exactly... It'll no doubt be a boost for the enthusiasts who like this sort of system, but for the rest of the computing world it'll (unfortunately) be just as relevant as the AmigaOne, Sam, Efika or Minimig...

And that's the way I like it personally. I don't want the guy who's sat next to me at work to have this, the same way as I don't want my nextdoor neighbour to have the same Westfield that I drive.

Remember - you don't have to sell a million units for a company to be successful and profitable.

[koaftder]

This just might be the final nail in the Hyperion coffin. They really botched the PR on this X1000 product. A week of baiting hype followed up by focusing on this XMOS chip. A lot of folks are jazzed about this little embedded processor and coming up with some really bizarre ideas about what it will be capable of. Some lame (nothing wrong with that), others impractical, some impossible. The expectations are high and this thing ain't gonna deliver. Well, not unless hyperion writes all the code themselves, which they won't.

For every 20 people who come up with fantastical crazy ideas about stuff the XMOS chip isn't suited for, perhaps 1 person will code a demo to render a fractal or something on it? Maybe blink some LEDs?

What Hyperion needed to do was have a motherboard ready for sale day one of their website launch. Something reasonably fast to run AOS4 and demonstrate that they're alive and committed to their OS. Instead we got 5 days of more hype, nothing to buy, and rabid amigans fantasizing about weird little embedded chips.

If I wanted to play with the XMOS chip, I wound't buy an Amiga to do that, I'd buy the $99 dev kit and plug it into a windows machine where I could actually use the development tools.

[wiser3]

One thing i noticed missing from the X1000 motherboard is wireless support. Where's wifi?

[Crom00]

That website sure doen't help the cause... that desgin repels customers. Again this is a niche market at best. At least someone is finally doing SOMETHING...

[Delta]

One thing i noticed missing from the X1000 motherboard is wireless support. Where's wifi?

Hopefully most wireless PCI cards will be supported for this purpose.

[JJ]

And using wireless and on a non portable desktop is just crazzzzzyyyyyy. If you don't want to have wires running from a router somewhere else use network plugs. Much much better than wirelss

[arnljot]

JJ, we need wireless. That wired networking is better (robust and faster) isn't an argument as to why we can live without wireless.

Cables are nasty, you trip over them and loose family members in nasy fall accidents :LOL:

[persia]

Exactly, I've dumped cables in my house long ago. My ADSL gets only 4 Mbs, Wireless is faster than that anywhere in the house and back garden. My video machine (Mac Pro) is hardwired to my server but not to the internet. That's really the only place it makes sense.

[JJ]

yes I have just bought a N300 wirelss router that does practically 270MB but I am not taking about cables I am taking about the network plugs that use the electrccitiy sockets much much better solution than wireless for desktops.

Wireless is great for portable devices but pointless for permanent desktops

[EDS.bod]

This just might be the final nail in the Hyperion coffin.

I disagree - I think this will make Hyperion.

They really botched the PR on this X1000 product.

Actually I think it was quite ingenious.

A week of baiting hype followed up by focusing on this XMOS chip. A lot of folks are jazzed about this little embedded processor and coming up with some really bizarre ideas about what it will be capable of. Some lame (nothing wrong with that), others impractical, some impossible. The expectations are high and this thing ain't gonna deliver. Well, not unless hyperion writes all the code themselves, which they won't.

Expectations are high and results will be high. I don't they've overhyped it at all. Those that say the chip is overhyped and it wont do that much don't really understand the impact it can have when integrated in a system such as the X1000, especially with an OS like AmigaOS with a large community of programmers that already understands how to code for a system with such an architecture.

For every 20 people who come up with fantastical crazy ideas about stuff the XMOS chip isn't suited for, perhaps 1 person will code a demo to render a fractal or something on it? Maybe blink some LEDs?

They'll be 20 great ideas, loads of non completed projects but it will be that one amazing, complete, functional app that sets the worl alight.

What Hyperion needed to do was have a motherboard ready for sale day one of their website launch.

No more mobo only launches - I want a complete product to buy.

Something reasonably fast to run AOS4 and demonstrate that they're alive and committed to their OS.

Who says they aren't dedicated to OS4?

Instead we got 5 days of more hype, nothing to buy, and rabid amigans fantasizing about weird little embedded chips.

Hype sells stuff - simple as. And Amiga fans are always rabid - it's just who we are. We'd be rabid about a coffee cup with an Amiga logo on it.

If I wanted to play with the XMOS chip, I wound't buy an Amiga to do that, I'd buy the $99 dev kit and plug it into a windows machine where I could actually use the development tools.

But you'd only have an xmos dev kit that could only do xmos stuff - not an Amiga that can do so much more.


For every fanatic Amiga fan there is an Ex Amiga user deriding the platform - such is the way of the universe. I look forward to the challenge of producing an app that will change your mind.

One thing i noticed missing from the X1000 motherboard is wireless support. Where's wifi?

My £250 pc mobo doesn't have wireless. Leaving it off is a good call imho - more money for other stuff.

That website sure doen't help the cause... that desgin repels customers. Again this is a niche market at best. At least someone is finally doing SOMETHING...

I like the website - nice retro feeling in keeping with the Amiga scene. Re the niche issue - I wouldn't be interested if it wasn't a niche product :-) Even at the height of it's popularity, the Amiga was nothing more than a niche product - and all the better for it imho.

[gazgod]

yes I have just bought a N300 wirelss router that does practically 270MB but I am not taking about cables I am taking about the network plugs that use the electrccitiy sockets much much better solution than wireless for desktops.

Wireless is great for portable devices but pointless for permanent desktops

I agree with you, I networked my own entire house (5 rooms) for about £150 using ethernet over mains plugs, yes i have WIFI but that is firewalled from my network and purely used for internet access.

As no Amiga (or Amigalike) OS has any any WIFI support better than WEP (which is so easily hacked its a joke) you might as well not bother with any security.

Gaz

[Crumb]

Hopefully most wireless PCI cards will be supported for this purpose.

That's unlikely since there's just one amigaos wifi driver for old cards and it was written by an AROS coder. No new wifi drivers since years.

[spihunter]

I think its pretty damn funny that over on the other Amiga sites its all dancing bannana's and everyone screaming saviour and here its one big MEH!!!!!! :)
Just a funny observation!

[Boudicca]

I'd buy the $99 dev kit and plug it into a windows machine where I could actually use the development tools.

hmmmm sounds a bit cheap....was it Heathkit.....last dev kit with of any use I've seen costs a few bob more than that. Current Atmel and Arm kits are in the several hundred area and anything with a screen and keyboard you need be in the trade already. The current "Hardware" development is aimed at the trade not the innovators, its time that balance was redressed.

[Boudicca]

I agree with you, I networked my own entire house (5 rooms) for about £150 using ethernet over mains plugs, yes i have WIFI but that is firewalled from my network and purely used for internet access.

As no Amiga (or Amigalike) OS has any any WIFI support better than WEP (which is so easily hacked its a joke) you might as well not bother with any security.

Gaz

I just drilled holes. Nuff Said ! Then again.....there is awful lot of Cat5e running round the house

[gazgod]

I just drilled holes. Nuff Said ! Then again.....there is awful lot of Cat5e running round the house

My house is ex RAF solid concrete construction, When I did some rewiring it took 30 minutes to get through one wall with a big professional "Hilty" drill, so the less holes I have to drill the better ;)

Gaz

[RMK305]

Pitty they weren't making a laptop. Sitting in Starbucks with an Amiga laptop would have been cool.

How are they able to call it the AmigaOne? Wouldn't that name have been registered to Eyetech?

[gazgod]

I think its pretty damn funny that over on the other Amiga sites its all dancing bannana's and everyone screaming saviour and here its one big MEH!!!!!! :)
Just a funny observation!


I think its most probably down to a realism here.

All we have is a web page stating some of the system specs, we've all seen these before and I personally am sitting in the wait and see camp.

If/when this board is released even if it does have a dual core CPU then i doubt that the second core is supported, as rogue stated that this is something that is to be looked at after MAP(which I presume is this board). How long this will take is anyone's guess, but as I stated earlier in one of these threads that OS4 for Sam was released in September 2008 and Hyperion still haven't delivered a USB2 driver, which i imagine is far simpler than adding SMP support.

As for the XMOS coprocessor, is it going to be like the FPGA on the SAM - useless?

Gaz

[kolla]

What's the point of adding wireless card to it when AmigaOS has no wireless stack, let alone any drivers (beyond ancient prism2 driver that requires dedicated prefs program and only supports WEP).

When will Amiga users realize just how far behind in things AmigaOS is in terms of technology?

[Boudicca]

Pitty they weren't making a laptop. Sitting in Starbucks with an Amiga laptop would have been cool.

How are they able to call it the AmigaOne? Wouldn't that name have been registered to Eyetech?

Amiga Laptop are u serious, why on earth would anyone want a laptop.....I haven't payed for a laptop in years. I get dumped one annual for my sins for working in IT. A Laptop means I can work for others from anywhere at anytime, its slavery not a means of escape. ;)

[spihunter]

Lol! Sitting in a Starbucks with a laptop is not cool in anyway....Even if it was an Amiga! :)


Pitty they weren't making a laptop. Sitting in Starbucks with an Amiga laptop would have been cool.

How are they able to call it the AmigaOne? Wouldn't that name have been registered to Eyetech?

[arnljot]

Ethernet ower power works great everywhere in my flat, except where I need it. Too much noice from all the equipment which is hooked up there...

Amiga is far behind, smp, memory protection, security model for multiuser, java, 3d, wifi, usb, firewire... The list could probably be longer kolla. But we need to start somewhere, or the gap will just grow. I think that we'll get smp with X1000. On amiga roundtable Rouge said that smp would be started right after MAP. I think he "lied", I think it's part of MAP.

Amiga needs WPA Wifi. It'll probably take a long long time if we have to wait for MOS or Hyperion to do it.

[runequester]

What's the point of adding wireless card to it when AmigaOS has no wireless stack, let alone any drivers (beyond ancient prism2 driver that requires dedicated prefs program and only supports WEP).

When will Amiga users realize just how far behind in things AmigaOS is in terms of technology?

If I want to be ahead on technology, I have my linux computer for that.

[Boudicca]

If I want to be ahead on technology, I have my linux computer for that.

U use linux on bleeding edge pc.....How quaint ;) I'm using ubuntu 8.04 on basic P4 from 2005. Does the job. ! Its writing this post fine enough ! ;)

[MskoDestny]

Amiga is far behind, smp, memory protection, security model for multiuser, java, 3d, wifi, usb, firewire... The list could probably be longer kolla. But we need to start somewhere, or the gap will just grow.
One has to wonder whether it's worth trying to catch up vs starting with a more modern design. I imagine the number of existing Amiga apps that you would actually want to use these days other than hardware hitting games is pretty small. Amiga OS's ease of use was high for its day, but I'm not convinced its terribly remarkable these days.

The only real thing Amiga OS has going for it these days is that it's lightweight and relatively simple. However, you can get that without bringing along a bunch of design baggage intended to deal with the limitations of 80's technology (lack of memory protection for example). Apart from requiring expensive PowerPC hardware and running decade old software (if not older), what does Amiga OS bring to the table that something like Haiku or Syllable does not?

[zylesea]

hmmmm sounds a bit cheap....was it Heathkit.....last dev kit with of any use I've seen costs a few bob more than that. Current Atmel and Arm kits are in the several hundred area and anything with a screen and keyboard you need be in the trade already. The current "Hardware" development is aimed at the trade not the innovators, its time that balance was redressed.

There you go: https://www.xmos.com/store 99 US$ for that.

And Atmel sets can be pretty cheap, too. Cypress even gives some of their PSoC kits away for free (at least I paid nothing). The days dev kits for embedded chips were insanly expensive are mostly over.

[Boudicca]

There you go: https://www.xmos.com/store 99 US$ for that.

And Atmel sets can be pretty cheap, too. Cypress even gives some of their PSoC kits away for free (at least I paid nothing). The days dev kits for embedded chips were insanly expensive are mostly over.

Thought as much...usb only....u want ethernet thats the next kit, audio the next and so on........by the time you have got everything u need you payed a hefty whack. Free is that the same sort of free I get my laptop by any chance on the basis of......work.

[RMK305]

Lol! Sitting in a Starbucks with a laptop is not cool in anyway....Even if it was an Amiga! :)

I was thinking cool from the point that no one would know what it was. I don't even go to Starbucks, but I would make a point of going a couple of times just to flash something people there had never seen before...and yes, I mean an Amiga and not my wanger.

[SamuraiCrow]

There you go: https://www.xmos.com/store 99 US$ for that.

And Atmel sets can be pretty cheap, too. Cypress even gives some of their PSoC kits away for free (at least I paid nothing). The days dev kits for embedded chips were insanly expensive are mostly over.

I think the XCore chip on the X1000 is wired to the main memory bus in such a way that it can be a slave processor for replacing interrupts with. The author of the Radeon drivers for OS 4 said as much on this amigaworld.net thread (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=30398&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#530974). See post #21.

[zylesea]

I think the XCore chip on the X1000 is wired to the main memory bus in such a way that it can be a slave processor for replacing interrupts with. The author of the Radeon drivers for OS 4 said as much on this amigaworld.net thread (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=30398&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#530974). See post #21.

Would make sense, but still not a big difference than to hook it up to the pci bus. As soon as it want have access to shared system routines it needs to trigger an interrupt at the host cpu to get permission. Better than hooking up to usb (where the stack must trigger an sw interrupt), but not much different than any other dma access (e.g. by a pci card)...

[arnljot]

Hans isn't an official OS4 radeon driver writer as far as I know. I followed that thread and I read his post as his interpretation of what the XMOS is. Not factual knowledge.

[Boudicca]

I was thinking cool from the point that no one would know what it was. I don't even go to Starbucks, but I would make a point of going a couple of times just to flash something people there had never seen before...and yes, I mean an Amiga and not my wanger.

From Boudicca's Evil Alter Ego...Boobica: Ah I though it was just me, but your right, there seems to be a thing about going into Starbuck's and flashing their wares......Frankly, its pretty dumb as I go for a coffee and piss myself laughing at the lonely folks in tweed jackets pretending to look like they had a flashy laptop and career, I always assumed they were unemployed and couldn't afford heating or their own wireless broadband. Anyone with a proper job and a laptop meet in Hotels or Pubs....its a tool.....not a Gucci Handbag.

If your into cool things to go and show off, the in thing is any Android Phone, specially the new Google phone, iPhone is so last year.

[RMK305]

NOt into buying all the must have stuff when it comes out to be honest, but always live in hope that something new that is Amiga comes out that I really want to buy. It still remains to be seen.

[dreamcast270mhz]

I hope it will make for a nice computer. Sorry SAM users, but your hardware is **** compared with this. I really think they will drop the SAM line altogether or else make it much cheaper.... BYE-BYE Acube, nobody likes your cruddy hardware! I will probably have to sell my blood on the black market or something to foot this bill....

[Hell Labs]

Tbh all this xmos crap seems like a waste of time nobody will ever use for anything. The site makes it look like this will get some serious use in business environments, when it won't. If this was 2003 they'd have NASA on board ( Although it's a lot different to the classic amigas they used, the brand recognition would help a hell of a lot, not to mention it's probably better for real time than a peecee), but it isn't, and they don't. I'd rather they used the time to make this to improve classic compatibility instead. I mean, they have a 3.1 license, they could just sandbox 68k apps the same way "classic" mode in osx worked. Then we could happily have hardware banging stuff running again, and they could pull a finger out their arse and finally give us memory protection, user accounts and some form of security at all for OS4 native.

What's more important to you, compatibility or a useless gimmick chip that nobody needs?

EDIT: depending on how much the price compares to a second hand Mac Mini G4 i'll buy one. Unless a WinUAE dev finds a clue and puts in PPC emulation.

[SamuraiCrow]

Hans isn't an official OS4 radeon driver writer as far as I know. I followed that thread and I read his post as his interpretation of what the XMOS is. Not factual knowledge.

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ is his webpage. He's writing the Radeon HD series drivers for AOS 4 as you can see from there. Do you think he is doing this on an unofficial capacity or something?

[MskoDestny]

I think the XCore chip on the X1000 is wired to the main memory bus in such a way that it can be a slave processor for replacing interrupts with. The author of the Radeon drivers for OS 4 said as much on this amigaworld.net thread (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=30398&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#530974). See post #21.
I don't think he said what you think he said. He said that essentially a hardware thread can wake up with very low latency in response to an I/O event essentially like an IRQ on a traditional CPU. Not that it was hooked up into the IRQ routing of the rest of the board. I don't see how it could be given that all the I/O lines are routed to the Xorro slot and the only other signals are power, a few control signals and JTAG.

[nyteschayde]

Apparently I'm in the minority thinking that it would be cool to have this functionality in a machine. Getting emulation cores running on the XMOS could offer great functionality. That alone would be a big benefit. It would be cool to somehow adapt one of the XMOS dev kits to interface with my A1200T running OS4 classic. I am not sure what I'd run on it but wonder if it would outperform my not-so-speedy 603e.

Tbh all this xmos crap seems like a waste of time nobody will ever use for anything. The site makes it look like this will get some serious use in business environments, when it won't. If this was 2003 they'd have NASA on board ( Although it's a lot different to the classic amigas they used, the brand recognition would help a hell of a lot, not to mention it's probably better for real time than a peecee), but it isn't, and they don't. I'd rather they used the time to make this to improve classic compatibility instead. I mean, they have a 3.1 license, they could just sandbox 68k apps the same way "classic" mode in osx worked. Then we could happily have hardware banging stuff running again, and they could pull a finger out their arse and finally give us memory protection, user accounts and some form of security at all for OS4 native.

What's more important to you, compatibility or a useless gimmick chip that nobody needs?

EDIT: depending on how much the price compares to a second hand Mac Mini G4 i'll buy one. Unless a WinUAE dev finds a clue and puts in PPC emulation.

[joemango]

I will make my judgments when it is available to purchase. Until then, nothing. No sense flailing about when it isn't real yet. I've gotten overly excited about Amiga vaporware so many times in the last 20 years that it hurts to remember.

Good luck to them. Let me know when I can buy/touch one. Not pre-order, not "join the club and get a discount when it is released".

[Matt_H]

I hope it will make for a nice computer. Sorry SAM users, but your hardware is Shi'ite compared with this. I really think they will drop the SAM line altogether or else make it much cheaper.... BYE-BYE Acube, nobody likes your cruddy hardware! I will probably have to sell my blood on the black market or something to foot this bill....

Geez, lighten up, will ya? So the Sam's not for you. That's no reason to slam those who are enjoying it. ACube's been carrying the proverbial torch on hardware - at great financial risk - for about two years. Kudos to them for providing a solution for those who wanted it when no one else would.

[Matt_H]

Some thoughts on this new board:

Granted, I was not following the reveal puzzle very closely, but it's signifance was a bit lost on me. Was there a point to the gold/black color theme? Did the puzzle make it anywhere outside the community other than OSNews? I thought the big reveal was timed to coincide with CES, but did anything happen there? Then to announce the complete system with no CPU and only a peek at the case, wow, that killed a lot of momentum. And frankly, I thought the "Don't worry your pretty little head about it" regarding the CPU was extremely patronizing.

That being said, this does look like a fine board. Plenty of modern slots and ports. Slightly disappointing they didn't go full bleeding edge with USB 3.0, but not a dealbreaker. I've seen a lot of "What the hell is the XMOS chip for?" postings, but I think the XMOS is kinda nifty. Clearly drawn from the "if it's there, people will use it" school of logic. It's a new tool that I hope will see some creative programming. Disseminating Amiga-centric dev kits for it will be key; hopefully a full SDK will be available with the OS install, not "in a few weeks".

At the same time, I'm interested to see what software changes will be made to OS4. I suspect that the so-called 4.1.1 will be what 4.1 should have been (instead of a hasty commercial response to MorphOS2). I've criticized the Unix-y direction Hyperion has been taking OS4, maybe the new release will start to clean things up.

With the rumor mill suggesting the Apple tablet will be $1000+ and not run OSX, my interest in it is vastly diminished. Since it might not be too much more expensive than a Mac, maybe the new A1 will get my money instead (though I've got to save my pennies for a Powerbook for MorphOS as well) :)

[zylesea]

Some thoughts on this new board:

Granted, I was not following the reveal puzzle very closely, but it's signifance was a bit lost on me. Was there a point to the gold/black color theme?
XMOS uses his colors.

Did the puzzle make it anywhere outside the community other than OSNews?

The news kind of made it to the online edition of Nowegian Dagblad. That's kind of success I'd say.

I thought the big reveal was timed to coincide with CES, but did anything happen there? Then to announce the complete system with no CPU and only a peek at the case, wow, that killed a lot of momentum. And frankly, I thought the "Don't worry your pretty little head about it" regarding the CPU was extremely patronizing.

I doubt there is a secret über-CPU. But all this half inforatio is rather oring I liked the initial game, but not revealing all the details in the end - bad idea.

That being said, this does look like a fine board. Plenty of modern slots and ports. Slightly disappointing they didn't go full bleeding edge with USB 3.0, but not a dealbreaker. I've seen a lot of "What the hell is the XMOS chip for?" postings, but I think the XMOS is kinda nifty. Clearly drawn from the "if it's there, people will use it" school of logic. It's a new tool that I hope will see some creative programming. Disseminating Amiga-centric dev kits for it will be key; hopefully a full SDK will be available with the OS install, not "in a few weeks".

At the same time, I'm interested to see what software changes will be made to OS4. I suspect that the so-called 4.1.1 will be what 4.1 should have been (instead of a hasty commercial response to MorphOS2). I've criticized the Unix-y direction Hyperion has been taking OS4, maybe the new release will start to clean things up.
I kind of doubt that.

With the rumor mill suggesting the Apple tablet will be $1000+ and not run OSX, my interest in it is vastly diminished. Since it might not be too much more expensive than a Mac, maybe the new A1 will get my money instead (though I've got to save my pennies for a Powerbook for MorphOS as well) :)

Never got the buzz about the tablet pc. Basically that is just a touchscreen driven notebook. I fail to see the innovation there.

[slayer]

Where does this leave ACube....out in the cold? What about all the recent SAM buyers, how are they going to feel when/if Hyperion drop support (as per Classic 4.0 users).


Some of us like usual always pave the way... I have 2 SAMs and don't feel a thing... If they'd released AmigaOS4.x for the x86 I think I would have been sick however...

This new Amiga is Great and I love the custom Chip thing... I've always felt elite because I've always and only used an Amiga... So, nothings changed... LOL

I'll buy this new model as soon as its out... and you can bet your bottom dollar mine will have max memory... although I doubt even I would go over 8 gigs if it was an option...

Its funny to read some of your posts when a few months ago you were swearing the Amiga wasn't going anywhere... lol

I've always preached Amiga doesn't need anything, it'll be fine :-)

And I'll say what I always say to finish, even if nothing comes after this model, hells teeth man, it's going to be a snappy mean ride for the rest of my life... Oooo yeah!

Well done Rogue and Team!

[koaftder]

define elite

[arnljot]

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ is his webpage. He's writing the Radeon HD series drivers for AOS 4 as you can see from there. Do you think he is doing this on an unofficial capacity or something?

I know his site, I've donated to this cause. Hans doesn't have an AmigaOne X1000. If he did this in an official capacity, I would expect him to have a developer machine like Rouge does.

[TheDaddy]

@dreamcast270mhz

>>Sorry SAM users, but your hardware is Shi'ite compared with this. I really think they will drop the SAM line altogether or else make it much cheaper.... BYE-BYE Acube, nobody likes your cruddy hardware! I will probably have to sell my blood on the black market or something to foot this bill....


What a crap thing to say...remember that IF one day you'll be playing with OS4.X on the X1000 it will also be thanks to us who supported OS4.1 and ACube by buying, as you say, their shiite hardware. You should be thanking us for believing in Hyperion and ACube and for shelling out lots of money so the dream would carry on.

We paved the way by buying Hyperion's OS and supported hardware.

Go and meditate...

[bhoggett]

The appear to have a niche they're going for, hobbyists who want something different, as far as I can see...

That would be the existing fanbase then...

I will be the first to say the last 10 years have left me with a pretty cynical view, but even so my reaction is essentially "meh..."

[persia]

It's not a generalist computer, the vast majority of people in the world would do much better with a PC. Let's face it most people just want to read email, watch videos and do social networking. They can get this far better and cheaper with a PC.

But with the ubiquity of computers nowadays, there are a lot more hobbyists than you'd think, people who'd plunk down some cash for them just to play with it. But it's price dependent, exceed USDollars 1000 for a complete system and you're sunk.

But again we don't know what the CPU is, that's the missing information that can tell us wether this is mid or low range for a computer in 2010...

That would be the existing fanbase then...

I will be the first to say the last 10 years have left me with a pretty cynical view, but even so my reaction is essentially "meh..."

[JJ]

And who is to say that Acube is not involved in this board ???

[TheDaddy]

>>And who is to say that Acube is not involved in this board ???

Or a new (better) board?

;-)

[arnljot]

And who is to say that Acube is not involved in this board ???

How about A-Cube?

[JJ]

How about not being a pedant?

[Derf]

And who is to say that Acube is not involved in this board ???

max (m3x) from acube for one...

[arnljot]

How about not being a pedant?

Is that some clever snarky remark? :-P

[JJ]

Is that some clever snarky remark? :-P

No that was your remark. A Pedant is someone who is obsessed with small un-important details and bringing them to other people attention.

[arnljot]

Okay, maybe I should have worded my post differently. But to speculate that A-Cube is involved, when they've said they're not involved is close to calling them liars. It's not okay in my book unless one can show they've lied in the past or have proof that they lie today.

It's this ingoring certain things that's been said by A-EON and others that annoy me in this ongoing debate on the AmigaOne X1000. It's not you spesifically JJ, it's other people too here.

Like the continuing insistance by many that this is a "tuned" POC/demo board. Why would we not accept A-EONs word that it's a new board designed to their specifications? Why isn't that good enough, to those of you who advocate that it's not, why not find the proof, and stop spreading FUD.

There are things that's strange in this. Why are we not focusing on that? Those issues are getting lost in the noise over less issues IMHO.

Like, why can't we get a clear picture of the case?
Why can't we get a high resolution of the motherboard?
Why does the wesite look like its designed by amateurs from 1994?
Why would the "higher upper ups" keep the CPU secret?
What OS updates follows the new motherboard?
Will there be a Radeon driver?
What other drivers will come with the OS?

Lots of questions still, but instead we pick and pick on things that for the most part have been answered.

Sigh. Perhaps I'm a pedant...

[cha05e90]

@dreamcast270mhz

>> BYE-BYE Acube, nobody likes your cruddy hardware!

Hmm. That's not true.

[Crom00]

Allow me to speculate.

Like, why can't we get a clear picture of the case?
A: It doesn't exist (yet), or the haven't recieved a tooling sample, or they're just too busy.

Why can't we get a high resolution of the motherboard?
A: They obvisously don't have their own board in hand or time to shoot pictures.

Why does the wesite look like its designed by amateurs from 1994?
A: Becuase it's a grage shop or small business and when it comes to web design you get what you pay for.

Why would the "higher upper ups" keep the CPU secret?
A: Becuase they don't have an offical supplier yet, or the deal sin't official yet.

What OS updates follows the new motherboard?
A: Slow updates as witnessed by the previous pace of updates.

Will there be a Radeon driver?
A: Eventually I suppose...

What other drivers will come with the OS?
A: Ideally all of them but with previous experience as a reference it may fall on the shoulders of the hobbyist to fill in the gaps for some drivers.

[HammerD]

That would be the existing fanbase then...

I will be the first to say the last 10 years have left me with a pretty cynical view, but even so my reaction is essentially "meh..."

Bill...you were a value to the community...if possible, forget the past, move on, look for a brighter future!

Too many hold onto grudges of the past that really make no sense anymore.

[Crom00]

Regarding UPDATES...Also the time to strike is now while the iron is hot. If you launch a webiste for a product then don't follow up with timely uodates you lose the interest of customers.

Holy Deja VU!!!...LOL...to quote from the new Battlestar Galactica...

"All of this has happened before...and it will happen again>"

[outlawal2]

I hope it will make for a nice computer. Sorry SAM users, but your hardware is **** compared with this. I really think they will drop the SAM line altogether or else make it much cheaper.... BYE-BYE Acube, nobody likes your cruddy hardware! I will probably have to sell my blood on the black market or something to foot this bill....

Actually your comment is ****... I am always amused at folks that try to bring down others when they have absolutely NOTHING to offer. The fact of the matter is that Acube have been the folks that have kept our dream alive and kicking for the last few years. As for the SAM line, you may not like them as I am sure others may not, but there are also many people that DO love it. And in case you haven't noticed, the SAM has been the ONLY viable option to keep the Amiga dream alive. I personally thank Acube for their efforts and commend them for taking the risks that they have to ensure that people like you and I HAVE an alternative option to the PC/MAC/LINUX triad as it stands today...

MAYBE in a perfect world, this new machine will be the Cat's *** and be available at a reasonable price so that all of us that are salivating at the possibilities actually buy one... THEN, once again in this perfect world, the SAM's will come down in price and be the viable entry level version... (Maybe a mobile version of the SAM for the first Amiga laptop and the X1000 being the desktop?) I don't know, but I do know that insulting the only company that has worked with us and for us for the past few years is rude in the least...

And downright STUPID

Once you pull out your own checkbook and fund a project like Acube has, THEN you may have the right to deride them... But I haven't seen any $ except from Acube...
And once again I thank them for their efforts.

[Crom00]

Despite all the hooting and hollaring, hemming and hawing... I applaud the efforts of Acube and Hyperion. Market conditions are what they are...

[arnljot]

Allow me to speculate.

Like, why can't we get a clear picture of the case?
A: It doesn't exist (yet), or the haven't recieved a tooling sample, or they're just too busy.

Why can't we get a high resolution of the motherboard?
A: They obvisously don't have their own board in hand or time to shoot pictures.

Why does the wesite look like its designed by amateurs from 1994?
A: Becuase it's a grage shop or small business and when it comes to web design you get what you pay for.

Why would the "higher upper ups" keep the CPU secret?
A: Becuase they don't have an offical supplier yet, or the deal sin't official yet.

What OS updates follows the new motherboard?
A: Slow updates as witnessed by the previous pace of updates.

Will there be a Radeon driver?
A: Eventually I suppose...

What other drivers will come with the OS?
A: Ideally all of them but with previous experience as a reference it may fall on the shoulders of the hobbyist to fill in the gaps for some drivers.

Seems like the community have been heard, or that they maybe have a strategy that pans longer than a day by day basis ;-P

Trevor Dick on whats ahead, just a little less cryptic (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=30432&forum=2&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0#532416)

Despite all the hooting and hollaring, hemming and hawing... I applaud the efforts of Acube and Hyperion. Market conditions are what they are...

+1, I agree 100% Even though we all wish we could cheer on a stronger machine and a company with more resources. I'm glad A-Cube has competition, and that we have more choice.

[Crom00]

I can assure you guys that this isn't going to ship in at least 90 days or more. The reason well, if this is shipping as a COMPLETE system with a custom case... it takes about 90 days to tool ABS plastic start to finish. At least in my experience in China, and by the time you go to tooling the case design has been engineered, debugged, photographed and apporved by all invovled from marketing to retail customers. (in this case probably like 10 guys lol)

So if a case design exists it's gotta be well underway or in the final prototyping stages to see a mid-year ship date.

So my theory here is that this has been posted to generate interest and garner support from potential developers and us fanboys :)

If they're using an existing sheet metal frame and redressing the front ABS plastic front shave some time off that. If the case is totally custom start to finish it takes longer of course.

Either way, good luck guys... I do not mock you... I salute you!!!!

In my expierence we'd release press photos once we commited to tooling and signed off on that bill. Becuase there's really no return once chips are being fabbed abd steel molds made... not unless you want to take a bath of bibilical proprtions...

[arnljot]

Isn't there some public records we can search? If this is to be sold in the EU or US there gotta be a paper trail? French and German beaurocracy has conquered the world!

[bhoggett]

Bill...you were a value to the community...if possible, forget the past, move on, look for a brighter future!

Too many hold onto grudges of the past that really make no sense anymore.

Sorry, I don't really care about that - which is why I changed my avatar away from that old badge.

The comment I made comes purely from a consumer point of view. Offer me something that I consider exciting and worth my money* and I'll be positive about it. Offer me something that I find so uninteresting I would not invest in it even if it was a quarter of the price and I'll just go "meh..."

I'll grant you my comments are very much those of an outsider these days, but then if you can't attract the outsiders what is likely to change? Maybe in 1985 being different for its own sake had some value - particularly since everyone was doing it - but now if you're going to be different you need to be better than the mainstream to have any hope of attracting and maintaining a true market. You'd have to say that this doesn't really qualify, either in hardware or software terms. Like I said, I'm an outsider now as I do all my work and play on different platforms and have no compelling reason to actively use Amigas any more - real or emulated. I'm looking at this as a passing (and passive) observer for old times' sake, nothing more.


* - according to my criteria, of course, since it's my money I'd have to invest.

[EDanaII]

No (real) need to explain yourself, Bill. While you might offend the "true believers" I think many of us agree with you. I loved the Amiga for what it once was. What it is today is another story entirely and it's sad that some people don't get it, including Hyperion. The only thing the Amiga has to offer us today is fond memories and as much as I enjoy those memories, 1 to 2 thousand dollars is just too much for me to relive them.

[outlawal2]

OK a lot of folks are complaining that this machine isn't the killer box that we all want... This may be true, but look at things from the point of view of the business man trying to make a buck. They have to generate enough cash to sustain this project and you can't do that by creating a machine that costs $10,000... (Ask Steve Jobs about the Lisa)

Soo with that in mind, here is what I would do if I were king..

Work alongside Acube so they could continue refining the SAM as an entry level machine.

1) Release the new X1000 with a price point of about $1100. US
Let the Amiga community play with it, revise it, make interesting use of it's new features etc...
While that is happening...
2) Acube refines the SAM and adds WIFI and tweaks it to fit into a NETBOOK package and call it something like the AMIBOOK. Bundle a flavor of Linux with it... An easy and friendly version like Ubuntu. This is CRUCIAL to my plan.) Create a truly KILLER browser for OS4.x and include it and a decent email program in this netbook
3) Find a store that has a decent infrastructure to sell these things. (An upscale store would be best and market this as an upscale Netbook)
By packaging Linux you get the Linux crowd interested, and once they are our numbers will double overnite AND we will gain programmers as well. Also, remember that Netbooks only need to do 3 things. Connect WIFI, SURF and email. We all know OS4 does a LOT more, but these 3 are VITAL to making this work.
4) Now that we have gained notice with a killer Netbook and the magazines are favorably reviewing them, take the proceeds from the Netbook sales and hire a few folks to help with programming, updates and such and then...
5) NOW create the killer machine that we all want, because now there is a decent customer base to work with, reducing the costs. Also, by this time there will be enough positive buzz that some software and hardware companies will be interested and NOW WE HAVE OUR BELOVED AMIGA BACK!

[JJ]

Okay, maybe I should have worded my post differently. But to speculate that A-Cube is involved, when they've said they're not involved is close to calling them liars. It's not okay in my book unless one can show they've lied in the past or have proof that they lie today.

It's this ingoring certain things that's been said by A-EON and others that annoy me in this ongoing debate on the AmigaOne X1000. It's not you spesifically JJ, it's other people too here.

Like the continuing insistance by many that this is a "tuned" POC/demo board. Why would we not accept A-EONs word that it's a new board designed to their specifications? Why isn't that good enough, to those of you who advocate that it's not, why not find the proof, and stop spreading FUD.

There are things that's strange in this. Why are we not focusing on that? Those issues are getting lost in the noise over less issues IMHO.

Like, why can't we get a clear picture of the case?
Why can't we get a high resolution of the motherboard?
Why does the wesite look like its designed by amateurs from 1994?
Why would the "higher upper ups" keep the CPU secret?
What OS updates follows the new motherboard?
Will there be a Radeon driver?
What other drivers will come with the OS?

Lots of questions still, but instead we pick and pick on things that for the most part have been answered.

Sigh. Perhaps I'm a pedant...

Sorry I did not realise this was what you were getting at. I had not read anything saying that A-cube were not involved. I was just specualting. Bu stand corrected. Been so much stuff posted skimmed a lot of it.

[Karlos]

Tbh all this xmos crap seems like a waste of time nobody will ever use for anything.

Oh, I dunno. It's supposed to be a event-driven processor right? You could always use it to perfectly read your joystick port (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41778) in "realtime" without any CPU induced latency.

That would be a big win to one guy around here :)

[dammy]

Oh, I dunno. It's supposed to be a event-driven processor right? You could always use it to perfectly read your joystick port (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41778) in "realtime" without any CPU induced latency.

That would be a big win to one guy around here :)

I'll bite, what game does OS4 run that requires such low latency?

[Karlos]

I'll bite, what game does OS4 run that requires such low latency?

Maybe someone can remake Daley Thompson's Decathlon. You had to waggle that digital joystick but good to get his speed up for the long jump. Timing there would be everything :laughing:

[Marcb]

Maybe someone can remake Daily Thompson's Decathlon. You had to waggle that digital joystick but good to get his speed up for the long jump. Timing there would be everything :laughing:

I hate to be pedantic but his name is " Daley":laughing:

Never was very good at this game on the 64, I was a summer olympics from Epyx man myself...

[Karlos]

^ Not according to his missus - allegedly...

(stupid spell checker)

[weirdami]

How is Hyperion connected with this?

[DavidF215]

The POWER6 processor is also compliant with the Power ISA v.2.04 specifications, and it's dual core.

It does not seem to be marketed to hobbists but rather to higher end markets that need processing power that would utilize the mentioned clustering technology. It would be in the Workstation level rather than the Desktop level.

[KatManDEW]

Any new rumors?

All negatives aside, I am somewhat excited about this thing. And there is a very good chance I will purchase one of them if they do materialize.

[amigasociety]

Hopefully it stops being a rumor and becomes more a reality. I would think by now Hyperion would make more of an announcement or at least a little more game playing with hints. Once you let something out of the bag, need to spill the beans. Or, be like Apple, and not say a peep until Mr Jobs says it. hehehe

[amiga92570]

Someone in china is producing them right now as we post.

[persia]

The Power6 consumes a whole lot more than the 20 watts that A-Eon was talking about, it also runs at much higher clock speeds. IBM reports it reaching 85 degrees when pushed to 5.6 GHz, but normal speed is around 3.8. It's a server class chip. One that would be a game changer, but doesn't fit the information we've been given....

The POWER6 processor is also compliant with the Power ISA v.2.04 specifications, and it's dual core.

It does not seem to be marketed to hobbists but rather to higher end markets that need processing power that would utilize the mentioned clustering technology. It would be in the Workstation level rather than the Desktop level.

[hbarcellos]

If we all agree that ANY new Amiga will be always directed to the Hobbyists niche (other niches require too much investment), what we'll really need is: Hobbyists SW. What are those?
* Do I really need fully 2010 browsing experience probably having a powerfull dual core windows or osx notebook some inches away from my x1000?
* Do I really need OpenOffice? Anyone plan to use x1000 for Serious Business?

What hobbyists tools should be?

[dammy]

If we all agree that ANY new Amiga will be always directed to the Hobbyists niche (other niches require too much investment), what we'll really need is: Hobbyists SW. What are those?
* Do I really need fully 2010 browsing experience probably having a powerfull dual core windows or osx notebook some inches away from my x1000?
* Do I really need OpenOffice? Anyone plan to use x1000 for Serious Business?

What hobbyists tools should be?

Until OS4 is fully SMP, it's not going to matter if it's dual core or not. Yes, this is a nano sized niched market that can not support anything beyond SAM440 pricing if you want volume sales of four digit, perhaps three digit. If the X1000 is $2,500USD or more, it may not leave the two digit sales volume.

[KatManDEW]

I always figured that an "average" comupter user does email, browses the web, and sucks pics off their digital camera (but few of them actually retouch the pics), and maybe play some games (nothing serious for the "average" user). And they may type a simple document every now and then, or have a spreadsheet that adds the contents of a couple cells. So the needs of the average user aren't that great.

I myself have a vast amount of other things I do on a PC, some of which most folks here probably aren't even familiar with. And I don't expect that most of them will ever be possible on a "new Amiga" (you can't do many of them on a Mac...).

But I would still love to have a "Amiga" with more modern capabilities. People are purchasing SAM's, and old Mac's to run MorphOS. And running AROS and UAE. So there seems to be an appreciable market there. Pickup some non-Amgia-tard, "average users", and that sweetens the market.

A new Amiga wouldn't need to be a giant killer, and storm the market. And if it could gain a foothold, maybe the size of the niche would grow. But there is a time window that needs to be addressed... The new machine needs to materialize before all the old Amiga-tards die off, so that market can be used to gain a foothold.

As James Earl Jones told Kevin Kostner in Field of Dreams - "Oh... people will come Ray." ;-)

[Piru]

oops. mispost (replied to very old post)

[gdanko]

Not to be devil's advocate or anything but with the announcement that MorphOS will now support the G5 systems, will this machine be worth the money?

[Daedalus]

Perhaps I am jumping for bait here, but I don't see how MorphOS supporting G5s will change the X1000's value for money. MorphOS running on G5s doesn't mean OS4 will run on the same machine, and so the X1000 is still the only way to run OS4 on "high end" hardware. There are plenty of people who don't think it's worth the money anyway, and maybe the MorphOS solution is an option for them. There are also those who want to run OS4 on the fastest possible hardware, and for them the situation won't change either...

[Piru]

Not to be devil's advocate or anything but with the announcement that MorphOS will now support the G5 systems, will this machine be worth the money?
Good question, indeed.

To illustrate the point: I could get 4 (including MorphOS licenses to each) dual-G5 2.5GHz systems for price of one X1000 (assuming conservative £1500 price, not "north of"). Most often these systems also include Mac OS X which also is a nice bonus.

[rebraist]

Good question, indeed.

To illustrate the point: I could get 4 (including MorphOS licenses to each) dual-G5 2.5GHz systems for price of one X1000 (assuming conservative £1500 price, not "north of"). Most often these systems also include Mac OS X which also is a nice bonus.

but those who want os4 won't buy a g5 mac. on a g5 mac won't run win7.
if i want a red "apple" why have i to buy a yellow one?
it's a matter of taste.

[Piru]

those who want os4 won't buy a g5 mac.
Clearly not. But those who objectively compare MorphOS and OS4 might actually get MorphOS instead, especially when the hardware is so much more affordable.

on a g5 mac won't run win7
I'm not quite sure how that is related, but indeed PowerPC hasn't been able to run windows since Windows NT 3.51.

if i want a red "apple" why have i to buy a yellow one?
Yellow ones are better and 1/4 the price.
it's a matter of taste.
You have expensive taste.

[recidivist]

But PPC Macs can run Windows up to and including XP Professional in emulation .

Being a hobbyist and home user,I COULD set up my G4 to boot into Mac OS Leopard,Ubuntu (or another) Linux,or MorphOS.

Run Windows using Virtual PC in Mac OS.

Run OS4 emulation in Morph OS ?

Probably can run some emulators of old consoles in MacOS or even run emulators in Windows (itself running in emulation).

Might have to rename my computer Sybil.

[JJ]

I bet running winXP under emualtion on a G4 Mac mini would be slooooooooowwwww

[rebraist]

You have expensive taste.
:laughing: no. mine are cheapest. i'm an "arosian":afro:

[tone007]

I bet running winXP under emualtion on a G4 Mac mini would be slooooooooowwwww

I've run Win2000 in VirtualPC on a G3 iBook. It was sluggish, but usable believe it or not.

[pampers]

I bet running winXP under emualtion on a G4 Mac mini would be slooooooooowwwww

It's actually not that bad with VirtualPC.

[persia]

Not as bad as a battery acid enema that is...

It's actually not that bad with VirtualPC.

[Karlos]

but those who want os4 won't buy a g5 mac. on a g5 mac won't run win7.
if i want a red "apple" why have i to buy a yellow one?
it's a matter of taste.

They won't buy it simply because it isn't an option as the moana project is dead. If it were an option, I dare say plenty would consider it. I know I would.

As it is, a second hand PPC mac is a very interesting proposition at the moment as MOS2 is the only amigoid OS that is missing from my collection.

[gdanko]

Good question, indeed.

To illustrate the point: I could get 4 (including MorphOS licenses to each) dual-G5 2.5GHz systems for price of one X1000 (assuming conservative £1500 price, not "north of"). Most often these systems also include Mac OS X which also is a nice bonus.

Exactly my point. A mid-range PowerMac G5 will offer plenty of power for any sort of "modern Amiga" task at a fraction of the price of the X1000.

[gdanko]

Clearly not. But those who objectively compare MorphOS and OS4 might actually get MorphOS instead, especially when the hardware is so much more affordable.

This further solidifies my point and also begs the question. What can OS4 do that MorphOS can't? People use OS4 for roughly the same reasons people use MorphOS. OS4 has a pretty limited and expensive set of hardware you can run it on. Yeah the SAM is cheap but it's pretty archaic as well.

[Karlos]

Clearly not. But those who objectively compare MorphOS and OS4 might actually get MorphOS instead, especially when the hardware is so much more affordable.

Unfortunately, I don't think any such people exist now. All those that were able to make objective comparisons have already done so and made their choice.

What's left are people that will stick only with OS4 or MOS on principle.

Or at least that's how it seems these days.

[Iggy]

Unfortunately, I don't think any such people exist now. All those that were able to make objective comparisons have already done so and made their choice.

What's left are people that will stick only with OS4 or MOS on principle.

Or at least that's how it seems these days.

Frankly, I don't think objectivity blinds one from making a choice based on qualitative judgments.
Both OS have a similar price. Both are 32bit, don't support SMP, and run on PPC processors.
But MorphOS is slightly more refined, faster in many operations, and supports lower cost hardware.
AmigaOS supports new hardware, may soon support more advanced graphics cards, and well they're allowed to call it AmigaOS.
While I admire A-eon's new design, I'll probably stick with Macs and MorphOS.

But in no way does this mean I'm not happy AOS4 is available (or AROS for that matter). It should be much easier to develop titles that work amongst these OS', then it would be to port software from the outside. And, hey, more options, more users. I think the perception that MorphOS users don't value other Amiga descended OS' relates to our posts about specific advantages we believe our OS offers. It's not one upsmanship, or bias, its just based one experience and frequent comparisons.

Again, I really hope AOS remains viable and the hardware vendors for it succeed in finding their market.
Also, I'm really impressed with the progress of AROS.
MorphOS without Genesi is actually looking better than ever.
Its nice to have all these choices.

[Karlos]

I think OS4/MOS in particular need each other more than most users care to admit.

Sure, you get fanbois on either side that like to slate the opposition at every opportunity, but they are, without exception, idiots, in my book.

As long as both OS4 and MOS exist, there is competition and with that progression overall. If either one died, it is very unlikely it's user base would migrate over (hell would probably have to freeze first) and you'd be left with one expensive proprietary OS on fundamentally obsolete hardware that, in the absence of it's old sparring partner as a metric, has absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users would remain.

[Iggy]

I think OS4/MOS in particular need each other more than most users care to admit.

Sure, you get fanbois on either side that like to slate the opposition at every opportunity, but they are, without exception, idiots, in my book.

As long as both OS4 and MOS exist, there is competition and with that progression overall. If either one died, it is very unlikely it's user base would migrate over (hell would probably have to freeze first) and you'd be left with one expensive proprietary OS on fundamentally obsolete hardware that, in the absence of it's old sparring partner as a metric, has absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users would remain.

On this point, I think we wholly agree. Just like AMD's competition forced Intel to develop an alternative to their Netburst/P4 architecture, competition amongst Amiga like OS' will keep driving development.
And when you think about it, we're not competing on identical platforms.
For everyone that keeps insisting either MorphOS or AmigaOS should be ported to the X86 architecture, hey that product already exists. Its called AROS. AmigaOS provides a recognizable name on some interesting new hardware. And finally, MorphOS has been running on Amigas since the the shift to PPC began and is still evolving to support more platforms.

As factions amongst us argue over specific points, the larger point is somehow missed. With all this activity, things are going pretty good for our community.

Does anyone out there miss Amiga Inc? Since the settlement in Hyperion's favor, interest and the pace of development seems to have increased.

[persia]

And this is different to the current situation in what way?

If either one died, it is very unlikely it's user base would migrate over (hell would probably have to freeze first) and you'd be left with one expensive proprietary OS on fundamentally obsolete hardware that, in the absence of it's old sparring partner as a metric, has absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users would remain.

We currently have two expensive proprietary OSs on fundamentally obsolete hardware that have absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users remain.

[Iggy]

And this is different to the current situation in what way?

We currently have two expensive proprietary OSs on fundamentally obsolete hardware that have absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users remain.

Except that, so far, the free alternatives haven't proven to be stable enough.
Linux developers have made this argument for years and have made little inroad into Windows' and OSX's market.
While I like AROS, I don't consider 111 euros too expensive for a MorphOS license (the developers aren't making any real income on this one).

And, as to the statement that only the most dedicated remain, I see old users returning and people who didn't use Amiga equipment joining our community.
If you think we can match the development resources devoted to pushing the continuously upgraded systems present in Apple and PC markets you're deluded.
But, I do see our niche market slowly expanding, NOT collapsing.

Do you think the the phrase under your names is:

A) an old Judas Priest album
B) A religious zealots devotion
C) or was the phrase chosen to make a point?

[JJ]

Unfortunately, I don't think any such people exist now. All those that were able to make objective comparisons have already done so and made their choice.

What's left are people that will stick only with OS4 or MOS on principle.

Or at least that's how it seems these days.

I have never really been in either camp but was excited about A1 for awhile and always wanted to try AOS4. But I didnt see the point on My PPC A1200 and there was no way I was spending the kind of money they wanted for a SAM let alone a X1000.

So in last few weeks bought a Mac mini silent ugrade for £150 and MorhpOS licence for £98. Pretty cheap and the fastest Amiga-like-OS running capable machine out there (AROS aside) . I am pretty happy with it and its so amiga like it is AmigaOS in all but name. If you love AmigaOS you would love MorphOS. The only thing blinding some people is the name.

[JJ]

And this is different to the current situation in what way?



We currently have two expensive proprietary OSs on fundamentally obsolete hardware that have absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users remain.

Dont get me wrong I can not see MorphOS becoming my main use OS that will still be ubuntu 10.4 and Win7. Its all a hobby and a pretty fun one to me. Got my interest back for awhile anyway. Considering my classics have been gathering dust for at least 3 years now.

[rebraist]

My next words are dictated by "religion":
In the late 80s i graduated (is it the right term?) to a "computer science high school" here in italy.
We were all fanatics of computers, geeks, "nerds" and so on.
There were amigans, pc users, few atarist and no mac user.
Naturally aside by the study we read everything possible.
We, the amigans, thought we had the best machine ever.
Pc (and microsoft) were not our enemies. Simply they had a terrible monochromatic os.
We studied on olivetti ibm clones and unix machines.
In our view the only "enemies" of amiga were the other two 68x machines: atari st and mac.
In our view pc was simply a poor architecture.
Then went the 90s and windows.
If somebody had told me that one day i'd saw an amiga like os on a mac i would have called him, at least, an heretic. And still today i simply cannot use anything having the apple brand on it.
Nowaday i don't feel the same to x86.
It's totally the best technology available to the masses (not absolutely but to the masses).
So, i'm an aros fan because i think that as yesterday, today i have the best technological hardware solution available to me, using an os that is inspired by those principles that made amigaos3 great.
Everyone has his own thoughts about it.
Someone agrees with this, someone else doesn't.
Some years ago i was about to buy a peg, but money, at last, missed.
Morphos could be a great os, but simply thinking that in an indirect way i'd give my money to that @@@@ of s.jobs, No. Sorry. I can't make it.

[gdanko]

@rebraist

I like AROS, it has potential. The UI needs a lot of clean up and there needs to be more driver support. In 2-3 years it will be viable but for now it is not.

[gdanko]

Dont get me wrong I can not see MorphOS becoming my main use OS that will still be ubuntu 10.4 and Win7. Its all a hobby and a pretty fun one to me. Got my interest back for awhile anyway. Considering my classics have been gathering dust for at least 3 years now.

For what I need, MorphOS is usable from day to day. My wife has Windows 7 and I cannot fathom an OS that needs > 2 GB to run comfortably. When she had XP on her 2 GB machine it ran really nicely but with Win 7 her machine crawls.

Ubuntu is a nice system and I have the Desktop version at home. I use both MorphOS and Ubuntu and either can be used for day to day stuff.

[Iggy]

Frankly I've never found a Linux variant I wanted to keep and use everyday.
And I'll admit that MorphOS is not a main stream OS, but with about 1% of the market, neither is Linux (and not only am I willing to leave MorphOS installed, I use it and am willing to pay for it).

Also, our Italian friend is right, everything mainstream looks like an Amiga these days.
I just regret the friction that did exist between 68K system users. I used several different 68K based systems and the only one I was consistently disappointed by was Apple.

Further, I see no point in zealously promoting one type of Amiga related OS or hardware above another. I glad that all these projects exist. It shows a continuing (not waning) interest in the platform.

[clusteruk]

For what I need, MorphOS is usable from day to day. My wife has Windows 7 and I cannot fathom an OS that needs > 2 GB to run comfortably. When she had XP on her 2 GB machine it ran really nicely but with Win 7 her machine crawls.

Ubuntu is a nice system and I have the Desktop version at home. I use both MorphOS and Ubuntu and either can be used for day to day stuff.

I am amazed at the >2gb comment, understand it with Vista though, I run Windows 7 on a netbook with a single core atom and 1gb ram and it flies. But MorphOS to me is more polished than Aros but Aros IMHO has the best potential future and already has parts the others lack.

[gdanko]

Frankly I've never found a Linux variant I wanted to keep and use everyday.
And I'll admit that MorphOS is not a main stream OS, but with about 1% of the market, neither is Linux (and not only am I willing to leave MorphOS installed, I use it and am willing to pay for it).

What makes an OS mainstream? Commercial adoption? OS X has maybe 4% desktop adoption, does that make it a viable mainstream OS?

Does developer support make an OS mainstream? Linux has TONS of developer support but not many adopters?

Please quantify your statement about mainstream so I can better understand where you're coming from.

[MarkTime]

I appreciate that Amigans are staying true to their ideals - but the ideal I specifically have in mind - is the 'creative computer'.

The one that empowers the individual to create. Even your old 8-bit Atari 800 or Commodore 64 was on the right track. I remember my Atari 800 came up and said "READY" but READY to do what? Why for you to program it, of course.

I spent hours writing games - creating content, rather than simply, using content others created.

By the time the Atari 520ST, the Amiga 500,were released we had affordable, powerful machines, that could empower you to create even more - if you remember before the word processor, writing your own book was meticulous and difficult - but suddenly we had help with layout, help with spelling, help with grammar - but at the same time, what happened to the built-in programmability of the machines?

We lost something - still many 3rd parties came to the rescue with excellent programming tools, so we didn't realize, at the time, what we were losing. We bought the add-ons, and we kept programming.

But lets fast forward to today, we have two opposing dynamics, on one end, we have machines that are merely 'content consumption' the embodiment of which is the iPad - don't even need a full keyboard, just click, consume, watch, stare, get dumber, etc. In this camp, they make no pretense at being a computer at all - it's more like a smart TV.

Although I own an iPad and admit I do use it for some artwork, it is 95% a content consumption device.

But we have another trend folks, another very exciting trend - the return of the creative computer.
Because we are slowly but surely, coming to understand programming as a 'commodity' task - it's not exclusive to people with advanced programming degrees - no. Now employers will take anyone with talent - they'll train that high school graduate to do programming tasks, or even just outsource those tasks to India.

What it means, is we are beginning to understand that programming - is not special. And that, my friends, is cool. We all begin again, as creative people.

And what embodies that spirit? Well ironically, Apple, in my mind. They aren't just leading the charge for content consumption, but also content creation, with machines like the iMac.
But you may prefer Linux, or AROS, or MorphOS. But the iMac, like the computers of yesteryear, comes bog standard with programming tools - XCode is included. Rad tools like Dashcode, included.

Apple expects that any user can create, and distribute, and even sell, an app for the iPhone. Just buy a mac.

It's exciting times to be alive, and I love it. And I know Steve Jobs is a little tyrant, and I hate that part of it. But for me, I can't ignore the promise of the 'creative computer' and who embodies it better?

Windows PC? - What programming tool comes standard on Windows? Nothing of note. Can you do things on Windows, of course, but it hasn't really built a community that encourages creativity. Mac - yes. Linux - yes, but with the codicil that it's still for geeks, and not widespread enough. Amiga-like - yes absolutely, but also with an asterisk, the RAD tools haven't kept pace, the technology is behind.

[runequester]

I am amazed at the >2gb comment, understand it with Vista though, I run Windows 7 on a netbook with a single core atom and 1gb ram and it flies. But MorphOS to me is more polished than Aros but Aros IMHO has the best potential future and already has parts the others lack.


My friends netbook is the same specs and absolutely crawls with win7, but Im not sure how its configured.

Morph does look more polished, but there's a brick wall coming up in terms of hardware.

[Iggy]

OSX's market share is about 5%. While small its significant that that is 5 times Linux's market share and Linux is divided between hundreds of variants on almost any platform imaginable.
What would appear to be Linux's two main strengths, its price and its availability have not been enough to drive its user base above that of commercial OS'.
Regardless of the number of developers you have working on Linux projects, frequently the quality and features available on commercial software running under Windows or OSX is superior.

As to Apple's drive to enable content creation, yes they consider that an important selling point, but I intensely dislike Apple's level of control over how and what you can do with their products.
Also, having seen numerous poorly executed products intoduced by Apple (including, but not limited to, the AppleIII, the Newton, the iPad) I have to wonder if their much touted design prowess isn't a hit or miss phenomenon.
Frankly, I just don't like Jobs and I'm not that impressed with the product.

So, if I've got to give my money to a large vendor who's OS is primarily built on stolen ideas, I give it to the big Satan - Gates and Co. at Microsoft.

Also, at one time I believed that memory conservation was important and I was writing position independant reentrant 68K code. But memory's cheap. Vista (and Win7) like WinXP before it use extra memory to buffer hardware operations and speed up the entire OS. WinXP will run under 512MB (even less), but it really works better at 2gigs. Vista and Win7 will run with1 gig but they run better with 2gigs and more always better. Again, memorys cheap, why worry about it?

[runequester]

OSX's market share is about 5%. While small its significant that that is 5 times Linux's market share and Linux is divided between hundreds of variants on almost any platform imaginable.
What would appear to be Linux's two main strengths, its price and its availability have not been enough to drive its user base above that of commercial OS'.

There's 160.000 android phones sold per day that would like to have a word with you.

Linux isn't just a desktop OS

[Iggy]

There's 160.000 android phones sold per day that would like to have a word with you.

Linux isn't just a desktop OS

Phones aren't computers.
And I never said I didn't admire some of the features of Linux. I've downloaded at least a hundred variants. I just haven't found one I wanted to use on a regular basis.

BTW - Did you notice that the object of your point was a commercial product. Maybe, that and volume could be considered some of the important features of a mainstream OS Certainly, Android is a mainstream phone OS.

[takemehomegrandma]

I am amazed at the >2gb comment, understand it with Vista though, I run Windows 7 on a netbook with a single core atom and 1gb ram and it flies.

Yeah, it must be Vista he's talking about...

But MorphOS to me is more polished than Aros but Aros IMHO has the best potential future and already has parts the others lack.

Yes, AROS has some interesting parts that MorphOS lacks (even more so if you look at the bounties as "real features, just not quite here yet"), but it certainly goes the other way around as well, and I mean real features which goes beyond any level of "polishness" (as I'm sure you know, since I watched your great videos! :))

As for the future, all we can say about it is that it's unknown, right? MorphOS "management" (is there any? ;)) doesn't communicate on any kind of road map they might (or might not) have. AROS is AFAIK a bit more anarchistic in its development, right? But both OS's are in the hands of enthusiast developers, and I'm sure development for both will continue as long as there is an interest among them to do so.

If you build your claim about potential future on CPU architecture support, I wouldn't claim it's cut in stone that MorphOS will be PPC *forever* (unlike OS4). AFAIK, none of the developers has suggested it would; instead they have shown quite a realistic view on the matter IMHO, judging by the public posts I have seen from them...

I like AROS BTW, and I like the idea and philosophy behind it! :)

I'm even thinking of chipping in some money in one of the bounties, probably the wifi one...

:)

[takemehomegrandma]

Linux isn't just a desktop OS

Linux is a server OS and an embedded OS so much more than it is a desktop OS.

[gdanko]

Yeah, it must be Vista he's talking about...

Windows 7 Ultimate

I'm even thinking of chipping in some money in one of the bounties, probably the wifi one...

:)

How about a put Ambient on AROS bounty? :)

[Boudicca]

Ha Ha Ha Ha......i've just scan read the last five posts and its a comedy for sure.

What we lost or more what everyone lost was control. The bankers got wind that computers = cash and could do more than print cheques at the end of the month.

Once that "cat was out of the bag", the bankers made sure the people would consume the computer rather than "Think! what if!", now its "Don't Think! Enjoy!".

There is no way back, no bank worth its salt will fund innovation in a field of conformity.

Find something the Bankers can't see money in yet, there is where you will find your next learning nirvana, computers are dead.

;)

PS Linux isn't ready for the desktop but Vmware View is.

[takemehomegrandma]

Windows 7 Ultimate

That's strange...

I'm using Windows 7 professional as we speak, and it's really growing on me! (Never thought I would say that ;))

When I bought my Dell laptop back in 2007 (some Core2 duo, with 2GB RAM), it came pre-installed with Vista. No XP option. I got so mad on Vista that I after only a few days, out of pure frustration, went down to a local store and bought an overpriced copy of XP instead, then spent a few days hunting down OEM drivers since DELL back then wouldn't publish XP drivers on the support page of this particular product. Eventually I got it up, and has been very happy with it ever since.

Now I'm actually considering switching the XP out for Win7 on that laptop, because of my current positive experiences of Win7...

(Please note that I'm not trying to sell Win7 to anyone here! :) Merely questioning some experiences of it that differs greatly from my own! :))

How about a put Ambient on AROS bounty? :)

Yeah right, well then, maybe we shall start by paying for closed source MUI4... ;)

AROS would greatly benefit from both though! :)

[Karlos]

Linux is a server OS and an embedded OS so much more than it is a desktop OS.

I've been using it as a desktop OS for the last 7 years. It's fine.

[Tempest]

I've been using it as a desktop OS for the last 7 years. It's fine.

Same here for over 12/13 years, last 5 years running Debian Sid and dwm (tiled wm) as my main window manager.

I've used Windows and MacOS X (work) over the years but Linux is for me the best desktop OS. Free, ultra fast and best of all, you're 100% in control. It's the most customizable OS out there, that's what I like the most about Linux.

[takemehomegrandma]

I've been using it as a desktop OS for the last 7 years. It's fine.

Huh? Where did I say that it's *not* fine to use Linux as a desktop OS?

My point was that *the most instances of usage* of Linux is either in some server application or in some kind of embedded application. And I only said this as a reply to a statement that "Linux is more than a desktop OS". Well, DUH! It's primarily *not* a desktop OS (statistically), although many people enjoys it as such, which is fine by me! :)

[gdanko]

That's strange...

I'm using Windows 7 professional as we speak, and it's really growing on me! (Never thought I would say that ;))

All I am saying is, Windows 7 is much slower on the same machine than XP, and the benefits do not outweigh the cost in resources.

[Iggy]

How fast Windows7 runs (especially when compared to WinXP) is relative to the hardware you're running it on.
Even Vista is not really any slower with decent hardware.
The only reason I keep an XP based system around is to run a few packages that won't run under Vista or Win7.
I have no problem with your perception of WinXP being much faster than Win7, but on higher end equipment that hasn't been my experience .

[Tomas]

I've been using it as a desktop OS for the last 7 years. It's fine.
Same here.. It has grown so much on me that i dont even have windows even as dual boot in this house.
It does such a good job as a destop OS that i would not even be able to switch back to windows.

[amiga92570]

I run all my emulation on xeon dual processor system under nt 2000. works like a charm. Also, its the only machine that has multiple parallel ports for commodore 1541 drives. Works great!

[Iggy]

I run all my emulation on xeon dual processor system under nt 2000. works like a charm. Also, its the only machine that has multiple parallel ports for commodore 1541 drives. Works great!

That's a neat idea. Back when PC still used ISA expansion cards I used to plug in one or two additional parallel controllers. On today's motherboards you're lucky to have one parallel port (they're slowly being eliminated) and I'm not sure about current support for additional ports for PCI or PCIe expansions.

I've always been curious about people hanging on to 2000 though. Since all recent Microsoft OS' have been offshoots of the NT kernel, what prevents you from using a more recent version of Windows?

[JJ]

Phones aren't computers.
And I never said I didn't admire some of the features of Linux. I've downloaded at least a hundred variants. I just haven't found one I wanted to use on a regular basis.

BTW - Did you notice that the object of your point was a commercial product. Maybe, that and volume could be considered some of the important features of a mainstream OS Certainly, Android is a mainstream phone OS.


Um my phone is defo a computer. Look up nokia N900

[Iggy]

Um my phone is defo a computer. Look up nokia N900

There may be some cross over between the two, but I can't see a phone as a substitute for a computer.

Checking email? Seems valid enough. At least if you can avoid having to access a web page.

Isn't text messaging supposed to be the way to go with phones? I'll leave that to people that want to and can master those little keys (I'd rather talk directly or leave a voice message that will probably be ignored).

Using the internet? Maybe you want to do this, but with their tiny screens and limited resolution I'd rather avoid the eye strain.

Apps? Lots of them, plenty of poor ones (along with more than a few games I've got no interest in), but I'm not doing my word processing on a phone (not if I can avoid it).

Is everything with a microprocessor a computer? If not, is everything with a microprocessor that can do some of the things a computer can do a computer? What the hell is the iPad? And finally, do I want all these devices (cause the phone isn't going to make a adequate replacement for all them yet)?
Far too many question, You keep thinking of your phone as a computer. I'll keep wondering when somebody's going to tell me their wris****ch is a computer.

[amiga92570]

That's a neat idea. Back when PC still used ISA expansion cards I used to plug in one or two additional parallel controllers. On today's motherboards you're lucky to have one parallel port (they're slowly being eliminated) and I'm not sure about current support for additional ports for PCI or PCIe expansions.

I've always been curious about people hanging on to 2000 though. Since all recent Microsoft OS' have been offshoots of the NT kernel, what prevents you from using a more recent version of Windows?


I Have 2000, I do not want to spend the money on Ultimate to make use of the dual processors. 2000 works great for what I use this computer for.

[Iggy]

I Have 2000, I do not want to spend the money on Ultimate to make use of the dual processors. 2000 works great for what I use this computer for.

I forgot about that one. Seems fairly stupid to support multi-core processors and not systems with multiple processors. what was Microsoft thinking?

Doesn't XP allow you to use two processors?

[JJ]

There may be some cross over between the two, but I can't see a phone as a substitute for a computer.

Checking email? Seems valid enough. At least if you can avoid having to access a web page.

Isn't text messaging supposed to be the way to go with phones? I'll leave that to people that want to and can master those little keys (I'd rather talk directly or leave a voice message that will probably be ignored).

Using the internet? Maybe you want to do this, but with their tiny screens and limited resolution I'd rather avoid the eye strain.

Apps? Lots of them, plenty of poor ones (along with more than a few games I've got no interest in), but I'm not doing my word processing on a phone (not if I can avoid it).

Is everything with a microprocessor a computer? If not, is everything with a microprocessor that can do some of the things a computer can do a computer? What the hell is the iPad? And finally, do I want all these devices (cause the phone isn't going to make a adequate replacement for all them yet)?
Far too many question, You keep thinking of your phone as a computer. I'll keep wondering when somebody's going to tell me their wris****ch is a computer.

ok 800X 480 res not billiant. But my phone will connect to telly. wll connect to a bluetooth keyboard, though even has one. Can connect wii controller, and ps3 controllers. Runs linux, had an amiga emulator, plus snes, megadrive etc. had 600mhz arm proc whoch can do 1ghz. cant be botherd to go on beacuse whislt i wold never use my phone as a replacement for desktop/laptop its a computer under any defination you can think of.

[Iggy]

ok 800X 480 res not billiant. But my phone will connect to telly. wll connect to a bluetooth keyboard, though even has one. Can connect wii controller, and ps3 controllers. Runs linux, had an amiga emulator, plus snes, megadrive etc. had 600mhz arm proc whoch can do 1ghz. cant be botherd to go on beacuse whislt i wold never use my phone as a replacement for desktop/laptop its a computer under any defination you can think of.

With those specifications I will definitely concede to you that is indeed a computer.
What is fairly impressive is the resolution you're quoting, the idea of connecting a bluetooth keyboard, and using an external display.
You've almost made me want one.

Frighteningly close to the productivity of a small PPC nettop. Leave it to Nokia to come up with something more attractive than a Blackberry or iPhone.

[Karlos]

As for linux as a desktop OS. Sure it is free, as long as your time is worth absolutely nothing. I have better things to do than to scour forums and read tech articles to get a computer to do anything.

I'm not quite sure why this idea persists these days. It was true years ago and it may still be the case if you choose a fairly niche distro, but the big ones like Ubuntu and Fedora are very easy to set up.

Frankly, I've had more problems tweaking AmigaOS to my personal taste over the years than I have linux and I always thought the former was a doddle.

[Iggy]

As for linux as a desktop OS. Sure it is free, as long as your time is worth absolutely nothing. I have better things to do than to scour forums and read tech articles to get a computer to do anything.

:roflmao:Bingo! And God save you if something crashes. In my earlier days with Windows, I often found myself reinstalling the OS, but nowadays a few of the installations I have have moved from one platform to another.
Linux on the other hand still has me frequently doing total re-installs.

And I'll agree with you that I, again, see virtually no speed difference between XP and 7 (unless you're running dated hardware).

[gazgod]

I think its time I called the RSPP (Royal Society for the Protection of Penguins), because some of you guys must really be abusing Linux, I have 2 machines here running that haven't been reinstalled for 2-3 years they just keep on going. I've upgraded the versions and all my application and data are available immediately after upgrade. I had to did into the forums to sort out the wifi on my netbook in earlier (8.odd) version but that work straight away now. My oldest install (OpenSuse 9) is probably over 6 years since it last had a boot CD near it.

@Iggy
Everything with a programmable processor (not necessary Micro) must be a computer, since when did available IO dictate whether a machine is a computer or not? A phone or a watch or even a central heating timer if it contains a programmable processor is a computer. Otherwise the server under my desk which only has a power lead and a network connection could not be called a computer as I can't use it without access to another device that does the IO.

Gaz

[Iggy]

I think its time I called the RSPP (Royal Society for the Protection of Penguins), because some of you guys must really be abusing Linux, I have 2 machines here running that haven't been reinstalled for 2-3 years they just keep on going. I've upgraded the versions and all my application and data are available immediately after upgrade. I had to did into the forums to sort out the wifi on my netbook in earlier (8.odd) version but that work straight away now. My oldest install (OpenSuse 9) is probably over 6 years since it last had a boot CD near it.

@Iggy
Everything with a programmable processor (not necessary Micro) must be a computer, since when did available IO dictate whether a machine is a computer or not? A phone or a watch or even a central heating timer if it contains a programmable processor is a computer. Otherwise the server under my desk which only has a power lead and a network connection could not be called a computer as I can't use it without access to another device that does the IO.

Gaz

In the broadest sense you're correct, but I'm not accessing the internet or using other apps on my thermostat. I'd love to close that whole argument by redefining what I meant from computer to personal computer (which, oddly enough, wouldn't include your server unless you're the only one using it).

And I'm glad you've had such a good experience using Linux. I assume that once you find a distro you like, that the experience you've had is not uncommon. Over the last several years I've seen enough improvement in Linux that I may dedicate at least a hard drive on one system to it.

While I am a MorphOS user, I'd readily admit that Linux is perhaps the only really large open OS/kernel in existence and its success is impressive.

[jorkany]

From the A-eon site:
http://a-eon.com/news.html
"A-EON Technology and its partners Varisys, AmigaKit and Hyperion Entertainment would like to wish the whole Amiga community a happy, prosperous and peaceful New Year. 2011 promises to be an exciting year. AmigaOne X1000 Beta Testers should take delivery of their revision 2 Nemo motherboards during the first quarter of 2011 and all being well, commercial system will be available shortly afterwards."

So is anybody here a betatester? Just wondering what your thoughts are on this.

[Boudicca]

From the A-eon site:
http://a-eon.com/news.html
"A-EON Technology and its partners Varisys, AmigaKit and Hyperion Entertainment would like to wish the whole Amiga community a happy, prosperous and peaceful New Year. 2011 promises to be an exciting year. AmigaOne X1000 Beta Testers should take delivery of their revision 2 Nemo motherboards during the first quarter of 2011 and all being well, commercial system will be available shortly afterwards."

So is anybody here a betatester? Just wondering what your thoughts are on this.

An NDA prohibits people discussing it. Sadly

[Khephren]

ok 800X 480 res not billiant. But my phone will connect to telly. wll connect to a bluetooth keyboard, though even has one. Can connect wii controller, and ps3 controllers. Runs linux, had an amiga emulator, plus snes, megadrive etc. had 600mhz arm proc whoch can do 1ghz. cant be botherd to go on beacuse whislt i wold never use my phone as a replacement for desktop/laptop its a computer under any defination you can think of.

You as well? I love my N900. On holiday in wales we got rained in, so we played N64 mario cart, and the missus continued writing her book using open office. But your right, no replacement for a big machine. Good emergency stand in though!

[TheGoose]

Wow, this was first posted on 01-05-2010, 11:00 AM !

We are on the cusp of the first anniversary of Nothing! I am sooo excited about the anniversary of Nothing, it's like Nothing before!

Help me celebrate a new era of Nothing! Whhhhewww!:banana:


:pint:


Adding further to the riddles provided, today was a day to release more information on the hardware involved in Hyperion's 'Most Ambitious Project'.

"At the start of this journey, we posed the question 'what is X?' The answer is that X is many things. X is the Xena/XMOS chip, and the Xorro slot that accompanies it. X is the mystery CPU, and above all, X is the AmigaOne X1000, the new complete desktop computer system from A-EON.

It's almost 25 years since Commodore released the A1000 model that launched the line in the summer of 1985, and with the launch of the X1000 we will usher in a new beginning for the AmigaOS platform. Just as Commodore did with the A1000, we're aiming at the high-end first, with a powerful desktop computer aimed at the professional and serious hobbyist markets (although you won't have to wait until summer, and it should be a little cheaper!)"

Read more at A-EON.com (http://a-eon.com/6.html)

[vidarh]

Linux on the other hand still has me frequently doing total re-installs.


Why would you do that? I have Linux setups at work that are 5-6 years old that have never been down other than for kernel upgrades and power outages, and that are still as clean as can be. Many of our systems have been running 24/7 with no downtime for 3+ years.

If you need frequent total reinstalls with Linux you're doing something very bizarre to it.

[spihunter]

A year in the real tech world is like a month in Amiga time. Things don't move real fast around these parts!

Wow, this was first posted on 01-05-2010, 11:00 AM !

We are on the cusp of the first anniversary of Nothing! I am sooo excited about the anniversary of Nothing, it's like Nothing before!

Help me celebrate a new era of Nothing! Whhhhewww!:banana:


:pint:

[Tempest]

Why would you do that? I have Linux setups at work that are 5-6 years old that have never been down other than for kernel upgrades and power outages, and that are still as clean as can be. Many of our systems have been running 24/7 with no downtime for 3+ years.

If you need frequent total reinstalls with Linux you're doing something very bizarre to it.

Exactly my thoughts. Reinstalling is the easy way out, try to fix it, you might learn something.

My main Debian sid install is more than 4 years old and I never had any mayor problems, it's running 24/7 and it's rocksolid. I only reboot after kernel upgrades.

I even think that almost any Linux distro is easier to install and maintain for the average Joe/Jane than any of the Amiga clones around (or Windows).

[tone007]

We are on the cusp of the first anniversary of Nothing! I am sooo excited about the anniversary of Nothing, it's like Nothing before!

Time flies when you're waiting for Amigas!

..not that I'm waiting for this overpriced joke of a computer.

[jorkany]

An NDA prohibits people discussing it. Sadly

There's NDAs that prohibit people from discussing their feelings on why something they paid over $700 is months late?

[Belial6]

With those specifications I will definitely concede to you that is indeed a computer.
What is fairly impressive is the resolution you're quoting, the idea of connecting a bluetooth keyboard, and using an external display.
You've almost made me want one.

Frighteningly close to the productivity of a small PPC nettop. Leave it to Nokia to come up with something more attractive than a Blackberry or iPhone.

Yeah, my Nexus One is 800 x 480 and my gtablet is 1024 x 600. My keyboard for it is on the way. Smart phones most certainly are personal computers. The fact that both my NexusOne and gTablet can run Amiga software, pretty much says that if the Amiga is a computer, then so is an Android device.

[Tension]

An NDA prohibits people discussing it. Sadly

Put it on WikiLeaks.

[TheGoose]

Time flies when you're waiting for Amigas!

..not that I'm waiting for this overpriced joke of a computer.


I'm mean, but you know, I do think they will make this thing, to the point of selling it and all. I just wish they would shut up, no hyperbole, and then just drop the thing.

We are all to old and weird for their "normal" approach.

[A1260]

Put it on WikiLeaks.

hahaha! :D

[Zac67]

@A1260
Never noticed that 1200 accelerators resemble a piano pretty closely!
http://www.dimensionsguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Grand-Piano.jpg

[Karlos]

@A1260
Never noticed that 1200 accelerators resemble a piano pretty closely!
http://www.dimensionsguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Grand-Piano.jpg

:lol:

Would be even better if it was the case that the socket was part of the motherboard and the edge connector part of the accelerator, since you'd even have the piano keys then. Sans accidentals, but you can't have everything :)

[fishy_fiz]

@A1260
Never noticed that 1200 accelerators resemble a piano pretty closely!
http://www.dimensionsguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Grand-Piano.jpg

Haha, that's both bizarre and actually true. I like it :)

Im curious though, where or when did you notice this? It's not an everyday sort of observation :)

[Piru]

Im curious though, where or when did you notice this? It's not an everyday sort of observation :)
http://www.tineye.com/search/dc09107ca321978cd297f7255985e7de40742f38/

Alas, no A1200 accelerators matching the search :-)

[fishy_fiz]

Heh, that's kinda cool.

Who'd have thought it though, the most enthusiastic Ive been in an A1X1000 thread is due to a piano :)

[Zac67]

:lol: When I saw A1260's avatar I simply couldn't help it. With the angled SIMM it looks so familiar and yet so strange... :insane:

[tone007]

http://www.amiga.org/forums/image.php?u=5017&dateline=1287794457

This grand piano that props up my mortal remains...

[jorkany]

So any beta testers get their board yet?

[Tension]

So any beta testers get their board yet?

LOL there aren't gonna be any boards. The project has been cancelled for months now.

[commodorejohn]

LOL there aren't gonna be any boards. The project has been cancelled for months now.
Oh, I don't know. Going by the site, they're still pretty confident that "2010 is the year we come back." ;)

[Iggy]

Didn't read all the way through the thread, but a surprising number of you don't seem to be aware of the x1000's cxPU. It was even mentioned breify in one of their own press statements.

It's a PA Semi PA6t formerly running at 1.8Ghz, now clocked at 2.0 Ghz.

[wawrzon]

why, for what i see this thread started may last year and everybody have guessed it for ages, even if it was "officially" disclosed some month ago.

[jorkany]

There hasn't been any news about the X1000 in some time, however this item appeared over on moobunny today:
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/186755.shtml

Breaking news or fanciful fiction, you decide.

[klx300r]

There hasn't been any news about the X1000 in some time, however this item appeared over on moobunny today:
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/186755.shtml

Breaking news or fanciful fiction, you decide.

yes, this coming from a very reputable source:roflmao::rolleyes:

[the_leander]

yes, this coming from a very reputable source:roflmao::rolleyes:

The problem is that unless the crap really hits the fan, all you are likely going to see thanks to the NDA is anonymous leaks of info.

Funnily enough many similar leaks started out on moo just prior to the exposure of the fraud surrounding the AmigaOne's hardware issues that were being covered up by the kindly mod team over at AW.net at the time.

Moo might by many standards be written off as a hotbed of nonsense and trolling. But the fact is, when real crap went down, it was spilled on moobunny first.

[number6]

The problem is that unless the crap really hits the fan, all you are likely going to see thanks to the NDA is anonymous leaks of info.

Funnily enough many similar leaks started out on moo just prior to the exposure of the fraud surrounding the AmigaOne's hardware issues that were being covered up by the kindly mod team over at AW.net at the time.

Moo might by many standards be written off as a hotbed of nonsense and trolling. But the fact is, when real crap went down, it was spilled on moobunny first.

Play the odds.
By all accounts Ben is non-communicative.
By all accounts Trevor does not say much, and when he does, it's about his hobbyist interests.
What are the odds that someone is friends with both at the level required to obtain such knowledge?
Not to mention the reference to the Friedens...
Not likely.
But I can see the need to fuel the fire, since we only have 3 Cloanto bits and C=USA and iContain to talk about today.
Heh.

#6

[WolfToTheMoon]

Play the odds.
By all accounts Ben is non-communicative.
By all accounts Trevor does not say much, and when he does, it's about his hobbyist interests.
What are the odds that someone is friends with both at the level required to obtain such knowledge?
Not to mention the reference to the Friedens...
Not likely.
But I can see the need to fuel the fire, since we only have 3 Cloanto bits and C=USA and iContain to talk about today.
Heh.

#6


By all accounts, X1000 is very late. Whatever the reason might be, they're having problems. Whether they're hardware/software related, remains to be seen.

[mongo]

There hasn't been any news about the X1000 in some time, however this item appeared over on moobunny today:
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/186755.shtml

Breaking news or fanciful fiction, you decide.

Fiction, most likely. Varisys were contracted to design and produce the hardware, if it doesn't work, it's their responsibility to fix it.

[the_leander]

Play the odds.


Fair enough.


What are the odds that someone is friends with both at the level required to obtain such knowledge?

Why would you need to be friends with both?


Not to mention the reference to the Friedens...

Given that Acube have effectively had to release their own hacked copy of AOS4 to work with their new 460 as well as the public statements by Hyperion that simply don't mention the new system at all, it's quite possible to extrapolate this even from the outside.

Again playing the odds, this wouldn't exactly be the first time we were told as a community that everything was on schedule and rocking, only to be told months after the event that nothing had been touched in months... And it's not as though Hyperion have a proven track record of screwing over their partners or anything either, is it?


Not likely.

Plenty likely, if you know your recent Amiga history.

[number6]

By all accounts, X1000 is very late. Whatever the reason might be, they're having problems. Whether they're hardware/software related, remains to be seen.

HJF posted on AW about having taken on too much, amongst other things.
I don't see how any one would disagree with that, whether looking from the outside or the inside.

#6

[vox]

Would not delete X1000 that easily. Sure, it might be production, OS development, CUSA, black hole and/or/if then else all together. Alliance of Hyperion, Varisys and A-EON is stil on, there are hardware vendor, software house and just for board small company. Did application for betatesting went OK?

[number6]

Fair enough.

Why would you need to be friends with both?

Dunno. In order to say:
"Trevor and Ben Hermans almost came to blows in the last meeting."
would you not have to BE at such a meeting?

If not, then we're talking what...2nd hand story, 3rd hand?

Would that not connote at least a degree of trust between the other 2 parties for this person to have been there?
Oh wait...too logical. heh.

#6