Who would be interested in a blank pcb for Georg Braun's new A1000 system (GB A1000)

[Kristian95]

I'm trying to figure out how many people would be interested in buying a blank pcb for the Eagle system developed by Georg Braun (http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/)
We'll need to have an idea of the number of people interested before it is possible to get accurate price offers for the board.

I have posted an identical thread at EAB... please only show your interest in one thread :)

EDIT: I have contacted a company (recommended by Zetr0 at EAB)... we'll see what they have to say :). I myself hope for a price in the range of 2-300 us$

[weirdami]

I'm sure whatever manufacturer will let you know a price per board for certain levels of volume.

[trekiej]

Depending on price, I am interested.
I may have to buy the English Guru Book first if it gets released.
:-)

[jkonstan]

Depending on price, I may be interested.
Also, you may want to get at least 3 quotes on the blank pcbs.

:-)

[Terse]

What's a blank PCB? Do you have to provide your own IC sockets and solder yourself? Is there a ready source for all of the parts required (aside for the Amiga custom chips?)

[Kristian95]

A blank pcb is the mainboard minus all chips and components. If you look at the page of the creator of the board you can download a list of components needed (along a more info on the whole thing) it's in German but all non Amiga custom chips he found in German electronics stores (stores and parts numbers are in the excel file) so I'd say the parts should be available pretty much everywhere. As for the custom chips, you'd need to find someone who has them in stock or source them from a (broken) Amiga (preferably 500+ or 3000).

[Kristian95]

@jkonstan:

I'll see what I can do getting quotes, alas I am new to all this so I don't really know any stores / suppliers, so if you can recommend any I'll ask them :)
I'm sort of the "getting things going" guy :)

[Kristian95]

I checked out this place: http://www.pcbfabrication.com and the prices are pretty good!
If I figured it out correctly (I am quite sure I did!) the price for 1 board is:

1 board: us$ 360 per board
5 boards: us$ 168 per board
10 boards us$ 106 per board

Does anyone have any experience with this company? Also I'd prefer if someone who knows these things inside out can help check out I did get the right quotation...
Here is what I filled in:

4 layer board
Single board with 1 board per panel
board length: 317 mm
board width: 342 mm
peelable soldermask: both sides
solder mask: 2 sides (blue board)
silkscreen: 2 sides (white)
minimum trace/space: 9-10 mil
minimum hole size: 17-18 mil
electrical test: yes
material: Fr4
board thickness: 1.6 mm
finished copper weight: 35um for top, inside and bottom layers
board finish: hot air solder leveled
stencil: none
blind via hole: no
controlled impedance: no
buried via hole: no
controlled dielectric: no

Please, please let me know if these are all the correct settings... I am only sure about the dimensions and material.

[Tron2k2]

$106 per board is, well, where do I Paypal tonight??!!

I'm super hyped, haven't soldered anything this big together ever, would love the challenge, plus I have the 3000 laying around-and here's the kicker: It would be cheaper to make this board than to buy the 16MB fast RAM for the 3000, almost!!

Who is the treasurer on this thing? I've even got an A1000 lying around that would be perfect for this :-)

As an aside, 030 cpu chips are cheap and plentiful at the local recycling place, just find an old Mac that has 'em. Or there's always eBay.

[countzero]

if it's 106$ per board I'm in too... but you should find a place which will provide and program other programmable chips, the PALs/GALs and there's a lattice chip in there too I guess ...

[Jeff]

I'm in if the price comes in around $100.00. Someone should contact Georg first about the latest revision board files. There have been some recent changes.

Good Luck!
-Jeff

[Everblue]

Not interested in a blank to be honest, but a fully populated one, even more if its in ATX form.

[jkonstan]

I had some MiniMig1.1 pcbs fabbed by PCBEX. http://www.pcbex.com/
PCBEX has pretty good prices on prototype PCBs.

Also, you will need to check to if there is a PCB stackup for the A1000 replacement PCB.



:-)

[Kristian95]

I've written comment for Georg in the thread at A1k.org (I speak some German), hopefully he'll help us out :)
Also, I hope someone can verify that I put the correct parameters... the minimum distance one for instance, if that is to be smaller the pcb will be up to 3 times more expensive....

[amigadave]

Everblue wrote:
Not interested in a blank to be honest, but a fully populated one, even more if its in ATX form.

In ATX form??? What is the point of getting an A3000 like spec Amiga mobo that was developed to fit in the original A1000 case and redesign it to fit in an ATX case? If you are going to redesign it to fit the ATX case, you might as well also redesign it to use an 060 and/or G3/G4!

I don't get it?

[Everblue]

I dont have an A1000 and rather than try to find a yellowed A1000 case on ebay, I would rather buy a cheap case from the PC store across the road and put it in it.

[motorollin]

amigadave wrote:
you might as well also redesign it to use an 060 and/or G3/G4!
Yeah! Do that!
:-D

--
moto

[mingle]

I'd give it a bash if I could get a board landed in Melbourne, Australia for around $100...

I'm no expert solder by any means, but it looks like it's mostly 'thru-hole' components, so it shouldn't be too hard...

Might be tricky to get my hands on the custom chips though!

Cheers,

Mike.

[whiteb]

mingle wrote:
I'd give it a bash if I could get a board landed in Melbourne, Australia for around $100...

I'm no expert solder by any means, but it looks like it's mostly 'thru-hole' components, so it shouldn't be too hard...

Might be tricky to get my hands on the custom chips though!

Cheers,

Mike.



Yes, MOST of it looks through hole, but remember, this is Through hole on a MULTI layer board. You have to make sure that you solder *ALL* layers.

The only Surface Mount devices, look like the 16 * Ram (?) chips, but they look similar to minimig's Ram, and they are *EASY* to do, maybe a few Surface Mount Caps/Resistors as well.

[whiteb]

Kristian95 wrote:
I checked out this place: http://www.pcbfabrication.com and the prices are pretty good!
If I figured it out correctly (I am quite sure I did!) the price for 1 board is:

1 board: us$ 360 per board
5 boards: us$ 168 per board
10 boards us$ 106 per board

Does anyone have any experience with this company? Also I'd prefer if someone who knows these things inside out can help check out I did get the right quotation...
Here is what I filled in:

4 layer board
Single board with 1 board per panel
board length: 317 mm
board width: 342 mm
peelable soldermask: both sides
solder mask: 2 sides (blue board)
silkscreen: 2 sides (white)
minimum trace/space: 9-10 mil
minimum hole size: 17-18 mil
electrical test: yes
material: Fr4
board thickness: 1.6 mm
finished copper weight: 35um for top, inside and bottom layers
board finish: hot air solder leveled
stencil: none
blind via hole: no
controlled impedance: no
buried via hole: no
controlled dielectric: no

Please, please let me know if these are all the correct settings... I am only sure about the dimensions and material.


You are using Edge connector's on the board (If you get as far as the Expansions), the hot Air Solder leveled tends to shred up pretty quickly with use on Edge Connectors.

Going for something more.... "Versatile" will add cost to the board.

[mingle]

Ah! A minor problem! :-)

I've no desire to end up with a $100 A1000 MB-shaped paperweight!

Maybe if I can get one soldered-up for around $300 and I'd go for it..

Cheers,

Mike.

[Kristian95]

@whiteb:

Which of the following would you suggest:

HASL - Hot Air Solder Leveled
RoHS Lead Free HASL
RoHS ENIG - Electroless Nickel Immersion Gold / Soft Gold
RoHS Immersion Tin
RoHS Bare Copper
RoHS OSP - Organic Solderability Preservatives
RoHS Electroplating Gold / Hard Gold

[whiteb]

Well, HASL is not ROHS compliant.

Minimum I'd go for ROHS Lead Free HASL, or nickel Immersion gold.

[jkonstan]

The old Amiga custom ICs are not lead free and never will be; thus, you could just use the less expensive HASL - Hot Air Solder Leveled. Another pretty good choice that I did not see on the list would be silver Immersion. Because once the copper is exposed to air it will Oxidize causing the PCB to become difficult to solder, do not use Bare Copper and do not use OSP - Organic Solderability Preservatives.



:-)

[amigadave]

I have a source that can recreate new A1000 cases, but don't know the price yet. Who wants one?

[amigadave]

countzero wrote:
if it's 106$ per board I'm in too... but you should find a place which will provide and program other programmable chips, the PALs/GALs and there's a lattice chip in there too I guess ...

There is a member of this site that programs chip replacements for the A3000 that I think can possibly help out. I will have to look back and see who it was.

[Plaz]

I have a source that can recreate new A1000 cases

If they can do other small cases at a good price, I have another amiga related project that would need a case. Let us know what you find out.

Plaz

[persia]

I'd rather see a µATX format. There's no reason for a big motherboard...

[Hodgkinson]

RoHS *Shudder* - Well, that is at least with respect to the solder. Bah. Awful stuff. It’s bad enough to flow onto the pins of a TIP120 in mid air, never mind soldering SMD's or through-hole via multiple PCB levels.

I've heard of people build kits (HF Transceivers, btw) with leaded solder and lead-free solder before, the one which used leaded solder got his kit to work first time. The one who used lead-free had at least two bad joints and he's still tracing faults, as far as I’m aware...

Anyway, that’s just my tip for anyone who does build one...
(Heh, time to return to the topic... :-D )
Hodgkinson.

EDIT: Déjà vu, I wonder if this project might follow the same course as the Minimig...

[amigadave]

persia wrote:
I'd rather see a µATX format. There's no reason for a big motherboard...

Unless you happen to like the Retro look, liked the original case design of the A1000 and don't want to wait 6 months to 3 years for someone to redesign the mobo to fit in the case size of your choice.

We have the A1000 design NOW, we have the files to reproduce it, the parts (although not so easy to come by) are available, so the project is viable if you already have the case, or I can have a new one produced at a reasonable cost.

Anything else is a different project and it is encouraging that there are still people interested in doing new projects based on the 20 year old Amiga technology. Hobbies are fun.

[Kristian95]

I'm curious now :) what would you estimate the price of a newly made A1000 case to be ??

[Kristian95]

Hodgkinson wrote:
RoHS *Shudder* - Well, that is at least with respect to the solder. Bah. Awful stuff. It’s bad enough to flow onto the pins of a TIP120 in mid air, never mind soldering SMD's or through-hole via multiple PCB levels.

Ok, so which of the possibilities that I listed would you recommend??

[amigadave]

Kristian95 wrote:
I'm curious now :) what would you estimate the price of a newly made A1000 case to be ??

Don't know yet, and I won't make a guess as I have no idea what the setup costs will be, but the guy is a friend of mine, so it will be less than if I had to take it to someone I don't know.

[yssing]

great project :)

If the board could be sold completely populated I would pay for one. :)

[Hodgkinson]

@Kristian95:
I've never had any professional PCB's made, so I’m afraid that I can't help you there (Sorry if I diverted the thread a wee bit).
I was just mentioning my own personal experiences with the shenanigans of RoHS related restrictions (Solder anyway) for the benefit of anyone who decides to populate such a *large* board.

Put it this way, we're stockpiling leaded solder over here, just so we've got some reserves for the future years :-D

Hodgkinson.

[Framiga]

@whiteb

"Yes, MOST of it looks through hole, but remember, this is Through hole on a MULTI layer board. You have to make sure that you solder *ALL* layers."

don't worry, the layers are already interconnected thanks to metallized throgh hole ... it would be a bit hard otherwise! ;-)

[mdivancic]

Count me in. It' be a fun hobby computer to work on...

[techie]

If the price was right I'd go for a new A1000 case :-)

I would be interested in the Motherboard too if it came populated with all the connectors but as that seems out of scope for this project I'll stick with the new A1000 case :-)

[Evillord68]

I have a fully working GB A1000. It´s a great machine and it´s very fast. Great work from Georg.
It is the fastest 030 Turboboard, fastram results with memspeed tool:

read: 32MB/s
write: 48MB/s
copy: 24MB/s

[Kristian95]

since this thread has become a bit intertwined with all sorts on other things than "yes I am interested" replies, please pm me regarding your interest (and the maximum price you are willing to pay for the unpopulated pcb). This is only for an unpopulated pcb, so if you are only interested in it if it is populated, don't pm me unless you have found someone to do the soldering for you :)

[Kristian95]

Evillord68 wrote:
I have a fully working GB A1000. It´s a great machine and it´s very fast. Great work from Georg.
It is the fastest 030 Turboboard, fastram results with memspeed tool:

read: 32MB/s
write: 48MB/s
copy: 24MB/s


Cool, could you per chance tell me what (if any) of the parameters, I mentioned for the pcb, should be changed prior to production of the pcbs??

[skurk]

I'm in for one too, if the price is $106 per board. I did some research, and the best price I could come up with was $200+S&H in China. $106 is awesome.

You'll ship it as a "gift", right? ;-)

[Kristian95]

Ok I have now gotten a few things sorted out by contacting Georg :)
The following parameters should be correct:

4 layer board
Single board with 1 board per panel
board length: 317 mm
board width: 342 mm
peelable soldermask: both sides
solder mask: 2 sides (blue board)
silkscreen: 2 sides (white)
minimum trace/space: 7-8 mil
minimum hole size: 11-12 mil
electrical test: yes
material: Fr4
board thickness: 1.6 mm
finished copper weight: 35um for top, inside and bottom layers
board finish: Gold plated (electroplating) or ENIG (electroless nickel gold)
stencil: none
blind via hole: no
controlled impedance: no
buried via hole: no
controlled dielectric: no

With these parameters the automatic quote from the site is:

Gold Plated (Electroplating):
1 board: $ 648,51
5 boards: $ 196 per pcb
10 boards: $ 124 per pcb

ENIG (Electroless Nickel Gold):
1 board: $ 586,88
5 boards: $ 175 per pcb
10 boards: $ 110 per pcb

I have also sent the blue prints for the board to get a "final" quotation from them, but I think these should be pretty close to what we can expect.

Again, please PM me if you are interested and let me know the maximum price you are willing to pay. The more pcb's we order, the cheaper it'll end up being for all of us :)

[amigadave]

Evillord68 wrote:
I have a fully working GB A1000. It´s a great machine and it´s very fast. Great work from Georg.
It is the fastest 030 Turboboard, fastram results with memspeed tool:

read: 32MB/s
write: 48MB/s
copy: 24MB/s

Did you build it yourself? Did you have to beef up the A1000 PSU? If you built it yourself, do you have a complete parts list (that I probably missed in this thread)?

[Retro_71]

I would love to have one BUT since my soldering skills arnt that great i cant see myself getting one as much as i really want to... New case and new MB that wouldl be great.... but a dream atm.

[Kristian95]

Ok, let me clarify a few things :)
1. I have contacted Georg and gotten the newest files for the board. These files, as well as the parts list are all available for anyone to download on his homepage: http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/
The only thing is that these files are all in German (which I happen to speak).
I don't know how difficult it would be to solder it all, but my guess is it is definately not a beginner's project.
As for the board price, the more we order the cheaper each board will be, 11 will be cheaper than 10 which are cheaper than 9 and so on.
From the original files I have not seen any mentioning of the need to "beef up" the original A1000 psu.
I have not contacted any dealers regarding whether they would be interested in selling populated boards and I have no plans to do so. If some of you want to do so, fine with me, but I suggest you clear things with Georg at a1k.org first.

[Kristian95]

btw, I am definately no expert in pcb fabrication, and I have learned that I need to get gerber files made before pcbs can be produced. The Eagle files, as stated in the above post, are available at Georg's homepage. Could someone who knows how to do it please make the Gerber file for each layer and pm me so I can get hold of them?

[Jeff]

[EDIT] Sorry, I guess I need to read more carefully.

>Does anyone know what the correct values are?

[whiteb]

Framiga wrote:
@whiteb

"Yes, MOST of it looks through hole, but remember, this is Through hole on a MULTI layer board. You have to make sure that you solder *ALL* layers."

don't worry, the layers are already interconnected thanks to metallized throgh hole ... it would be a bit hard otherwise! ;-)



In that case if the through holes are properly interconnected at each layer, and all thats needed is the joint on one side to give contact to the component, then no worries.

For other people, the RAM looks *VERY* much like the form factor (SOIC) of the minimig ram, in which case, its (Pardon my language) a Piece of piss to solder, through hole is easy game for blind man freddy, and the other miscellaneous Surface mount components should be okay to do (if its 0805).

All up, it looks of moderate ease to do if you have all the components at hand.

I tell you what, Those of you in Melbourne, come along to MAUG and I'll do the RAM for you (Just let me know so i know to turn up).

[damiraga]

If the price remains in $100-$150 range, I would be interested.

[persia]

That's one huge motherboard, if you can't get a A1000 box would there be any point in getting one?

[Kristian95]

most pcb companies require gerber files for production. I do not have the gerber files and I have learned that to make those you need to have proper knowledge to insure that the gerber files have not gotten errors compared to the Eagle files.
At the moment I am hunting quotes from companies that accept Eagle files, this severely limits the number of available companies and may end up reflected on the final pcb price. Therefore, if any of you are skilled with Eagle and gerber file making (and validating) I think now is the time to step up to the plate here ;)

[trekiej]

@ Kristian95 :
Have you tried PCB123 or PCBoard Express?

[gklinger]

I've been following this thread with interest as I'm an Amiga 1000 owner/lover and I'm not entirely clear on what exactly this Georg Braun has come up with (I don't read German). From what I gather it is a drop-in replacement for the 1000 motherboard (not unlike the Phoenix) with sockets for a 68030 and FPU, 8MB of RAM with an IDE controller and flicker fixer? I suspect there might be more to it. If someone could post more information (or a link to it) I would be very appreciative.

This certainly sounds like something I'd like to get in on. One I know more I'll be able to say for sure. Such an upgrade my elevate my 1000 from beloved keepsake to an Amiga for day-to-day use.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. If anyone has any information about the CF adaptor listed on Georg Braun's page I would love to know more about that too. :)

EDIT: I feel stupid. I just found this (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2547=6) which answered a lot of my questions. I also found pictures of his CF adaptor. Blimey. I am *way* out of the loop! This thing sounds awesome although I doubt I could build it without soldering myself to something. I'd happily pay $300-$500 for one of those assembled and ready to rumble.

[Kristian95]

I have GOOD news :)

I have reached 2 companies that will accept the Eagle files (which will make it the companys problem to make a working gerber file).
And even better, the price per board is very good!
I also got a quote from the company in Germany which Georg used. All three companies use gold plating finish. I will show the quotes below for comparison (all prices are per pcb):

Spemco Teoranta (Ireland):

1 pcb: €481,28 (+€100)
5 pcbs: €129,49 (+€20)
10 pcbs: €83,07 (+€10)
20 pcbs: €59,93 (+€5)

for all orders (no matter what size) it will cost €100 for tooling setup (shown in brackets as cost per board above, € = Euro).


custompbc.com (Malaysia):

10 pcbs: 38
20 pcbs: 33

This price will be adjusted as gold plating has to be added.


E&K leierplatten (Germany):

1 pcb: 805,29
5 pcbs: 317,14
10 pcbs: 221,46
20 pcbs: 185,63

This is by far the most expensive, but we know for fact that these boards work.

If anyone has any experience with the above mentioned companies, let us know :)

This far I have received 7 pm's showing interest (only counting the pm's for simplicitys sake).

[Ideal]

Well.. I was going to say I wanted one, but the little SMD resistors kinda put me off. Is there any way to have them pre done?

[Hodgkinson]

Here's a few more company ideas from the EW mag adverts:

www.top-tec-pcb.co.uk
www.rak.co.uk
www.pcb-pool.com
www.pcbportal.com
http://www.pcbsnap.com/
www.european-circuits.co.uk (?)
www.pcbtrain.com
www.coraassemblyservices.co.uk (Gerber, full population)

[Kristian95]

Thanks Hodgkinson :) I'll contact them as well.... though any place that requires me to supply gerber files will not be useful as I do not have gerber files. Anyone who has experience making gerber files from Eagle files is welcome to do so :)

[Bandis]

Taking quotes for pre-assembled boards (for the smd stuff) might be interesting aswell.

Good luck with your project :)

Bandis

[AJCopland]

Ideal wrote:
Well.. I was going to say I wanted one, but the little SMD resistors kinda put me off. Is there any way to have them pre done?

Actually I've been building a MiniMig and those tiny little resistors have been probably the easiest part! The SMD RAM is probably going to be the most difficult on that board and even that was fairly simple as long as you've got some solder wick to remove the excess.

I should point out that before the MiniMig I hadn't soldered _anything_ in at least 12 years when I was at school!

Andy

[whiteb]

AJCopland wrote:

Actually I've been building a MiniMig and those tiny little resistors have been probably the easiest part! The SMD RAM is probably going to be the most difficult on that board and even that was fairly simple as long as you've got some solder wick to remove the excess.

I should point out that before the MiniMig I hadn't soldered _anything_ in at least 12 years when I was at school!

Andy

How the Frack are you soldering the ram then ? I didnt need *ANY* braid when I did mine. The key (For me) was to use Solder flux, and just making a massive ball of solder on the iron and slowly rolling the ball over the pins. Because of the flux, the pins do not bridge, and the Solder ball *USUALLY* stays on the Iron. If it does drop off, go back and pick it up again and continue.

If a bridge forms on two pins, just suck it up with a manual pump. Flux is *AWESOME* stuff. Then just ISO Alcohol clean the flux off.

But yes, 0805 SMC is easy, as is the (SOIC package) Ram.

The 0805 (caps and resistors), just pre-tin *ONE* of the pads, get the component in a pair of tweezers, heat the tinned pad and just slide the component in to place. Spin it round and solder the other side.. Done.

I know its easier to say, but the minimig really taught me lessons in Soldering SMC stuff.

[Kristian95]

@Bandis:

The problem with pre-assembly is that you have to supply all the components and getting people to ship the custom chips as well will be a bit too much for now.

[TheGoose]

This is so anti-PPC I love it. Kristian, PM'd you. So I would be one more to add.

Now where do we get those robots that place the little chips and zap them in place?


:lol:

[Kristian95]

Ok this is the list of people who are definately interested:

Tron2k2, countzero, Jeff, mdivancic, skurk, damiraga, trekiej, amigadave, firedawg, TheGoose, Bandis, Ideal
= 12 people

I have spoken to da9000 and he is interested as well (=13)

I myself would want one as well (=14)

People from EAB who are interested: Magic, Zetr0, lopos2000 (=17)

People who might be interested:

jkonstan

Ok, people, if you are interested, and not in the list, please either pm me or quote this post, adding yourself to the list and updating the counts. Remember, the more people ordering this board, the cheaper it will end up being for everyone :)

Once the best quote has been found, I will need to know where all of you guys are at in the world so I can calculate shipping from California (where I am) to your place. After that, each of you will have to pre-pay (as a pre-order) for the pcb and shipping to me, then, and only then I will order the pcbs and ship them from me to you as soon as I receive them.
You can get an idea of my record for honesty by checking my ebay feedback (a buyer only though), my ebay ID is Kristian95. Also da9000 can vouch for me :)

[countzero]

coze from EAB is actually me, so please remove one of me :)

[TheGoose]

@ Kristian95

Well thanks for organizing this. We all do hope you are honest and will do right by us, in these adhoc internet forum adventures.

I'm excited.

[Bandis]

Im probably interested if price gets below 100 euro.

[Kristian95]

@countzero: roger that, hereby updated :)

@TheGoose: I know it is always a bit unnerving when money is involved but I am not in this to screw anyone over, I just figured that someone has to organize this to get it running and I don't have the money to front it all and wait for payment until after the pcbs are made :(

@Bandis: I am pretty sure that the pcb will end under €150 per pcb, but with shipping included I cannot promise it may not exceed €150 but it shouldn't get much over €150 per board if it does... so I have added you to the "go" list, hope that is fine :)

[Bandis]

Maybe two shipping hubs could be arranged, one in EU and one in USA. Basicly the factory splits the shipment and this might save some shippingcosts and no doubt time.

[Ideal]

Ok, if the SMD isn't that difficult I will put my name forward for one board.
I guess I was just being overly cautios.

Put me down for one board.

[Kristian95]

@Bandis: Once we get closer to ordering I'll check how many boards go to Europa and how many to the US and see what the pcb company says to splitting the boards shipping wise :)

@Ideal: Consider yourself added to the list :)

[Kristian95]

Latest update on interested people:
Ok this is the list of people who are definately interested:

Tron2k2, countzero, Jeff, mdivancic, skurk, damiraga, trekiej, amigadave, firedawg, TheGoose, Bandis, Ideal, jkonstan, shaf, Tahoe = 15 people

I have spoken to da9000 and he is interested as well (=16)

I myself would want one as well (=17)

People from EAB who are interested: Magic, Zetr0, lopos2000, Jope (=21)

[weirdami]

Once we get closer to ordering I'll check how many boards go to Europa

I'm surprised and excited to find out that there are Amiga enthusiasts so far out in the solar system. Go AMIGA! :python:

[jkonstan]

Kristian. As soon as you can commit to the price, I can let you know for sure if I want one of these blank pcbs.

:-)

[AJCopland]

whiteb wrote:

How the Frack are you soldering the ram then ? I didnt need *ANY* braid when I did mine. The key (For me) was to use Solder flux, and just making a massive ball of solder on the iron and slowly rolling the ball over the pins. Because of the flux, the pins do not bridge, and the Solder ball *USUALLY* stays on the Iron. If it does drop off, go back and pick it up again and continue.

If a bridge forms on two pins, just suck it up with a manual pump. Flux is *AWESOME* stuff. Then just ISO Alcohol clean the flux off.

How the Frack? Carefully is how the Frack ;) Basically we didn't have any flux solder (due to me ordering the wrong thing!) we still did it using the drag soldering method and then just cleaned off the bridges with solder wick. I'd have much preferred to use flux and I will be doing for the 68k and FPGA, should be doing them this weekend! :-)


whiteb wrote:
But yes, 0805 SMC is easy, as is the (SOIC package) Ram.

The 0805 (caps and resistors), just pre-tin *ONE* of the pads, get the component in a pair of tweezers, heat the tinned pad and just slide the component in to place. Spin it round and solder the other side.. Done.

That's exactly how we're doing them, the first couple I tried pre-tinning both of the pads but that was quite clearly wrong once I started! :-D
Since then I just do as you have:
--pre-tin one pad,
--move the part into place and hold with tweezers
--heat up the pre-tinned pad with the soldering-iron
----the smd part will be pulled/pushed into the solder
----remove the soldering iron
--then just solder the other side

It's surprisingly easy, in fact the hardest part has been finding the little resistors when I sneeze and they go flying off somewhere :-D

Andy

PS: sorry for this being off-topic I got carried away!

[whiteb]

AJCopland wrote:

It's surprisingly easy, in fact the hardest part has been finding the little resistors when I sneeze and they go flying off somewhere :-D

Andy

PS: sorry for this being off-topic I got carried away!

Bahahahaha !!!!!!!

Been there, done that. Imagine how i feel when a brown case 0805 capacitor, lands on brown wooden floor boards.

:pissed:

I can certainly feel how some people are going to feel... overwhelmed when they first do 0805 components (which it looks like, this board will)

[Kristian95]

Price updates!! :)

Spemco Teoranta (Ireland):

1 pcb: €481,28 (+€100) / $737,32 (+$155)
5 pcbs: €129,49 (+€20) / $198,38 (+$31)
10 pcbs: €83,07 (+€10) / $127,26 (+$15,5)
20 pcbs: €59,93 (+€5) / $91,81 (+$7,75)

for all orders (no matter what size) it will cost €100 ($155) for tooling setup.


custompbc.com (Malaysia):

10 pcbs: 47
20 pcbs: 41

This price has been adjusted for gold plating.


E&K leierplatten (Germany) / Offer via Taiwan site:

1 pcb: 805,29 / 940,62
5 pcbs: 317,14 / 206,87
10 pcbs: 221,46 / 109,31
20 pcbs: 185,63 / 56,42

The Taiwan offer includes a very expensive shipping by shipping from Taiwan to Germany and then the US ($548,94), the guys at E&K are investigating the possibility of shipping directly to the US which will reduce the (already low cost for 20 boards) even further!! :)

At the moment, since we know E&K boards will definately work (this is the company Georg has used) I'd say we'll most likely end up going with the Taiwan offer from E&K... let's see what they can do regarding shipping :)

[Kristian95]

@jkonstan:

As you can see from the updated prices, you can expect the cost of the pcb to be way less than $100 (excl shipping to your place).

[jkonstan]

Kristian, the blank pcb cost appears to be less than $100; thus, count me in for one blank pcb.



:-)

[Kristian95]

roger that :) list updated :)

[trekiej]

@Kristian95:
Do you expect the price to continually drop with more people?
I hope at least.

[Kristian95]

I'm pretty sure that no matter what the price will drop the more people order. We are 1 person away from the 20 board line... My guess is we might save a few bucks per board if we make 30.... but even the price at 20 boards is pretty nice if you ask me :)

[trekiej]

Cool.

[Tahoe]

Want one too!!!

[shaf]

If you can ship to Canada I'll take one also.

I've probably got enough parts left over to populate it.

Thanks

Shaf

[Kristian95]

As long as people pay the cost for the pcb + packaging + shipping I'll ship it where ever it needs to be shipped :)

shaf & Tahoe consider yourself added to the list :)

[Kristian95]

Newest update on interested people:

Tron2k2, countzero, Jeff, mdivancic, skurk, damiraga, trekiej, amigadave, firedawg, TheGoose, Bandis, Ideal, jkonstan, shaf, Tahoe, BuzzBrain, Mercid, AmigaGTI, gazgod, hakker, Terse = 21 people

I have spoken to da9000 and he is interested as well (=22)

I myself would want one as well (=23)

People from EAB who are interested: Magic, Zetr0, lopos2000, Jope (=27)

People from A1k.org who are interested: evi, snowman (=29)

[countzero]

kristian, maybe you should advertise at amigaworld.net too ? I think then we may be able to break the 30 barrier.

also it would be nice if mr braun could provide us with the programmed chips (GALs and a Lattice chip). did you talk about that ?

[Kristian95]

I don't have an account at Amigaworld, but if you do you are more than welcome to point people to this thread for getting boards :)
As for getting the GAL chips programmed, I have not talked to Georg Braun about it. I am only trying to organize the ordering of the pcbs, any other matters such as getting the custom chips needed or programming GALs I'll leave to individual pcb builders. It'll already be quite a task for me to pack every pcb individually and ship them (considering we're talking 20+ shipments), I really don't have time to organize more stuff. Anyone who is able to / want to organize programming of GALs etc is more than welcome to do so :)

[evi73]

.

[Hodgkinson]

??? "." ???

[Kristian95]

don't worry got the "." figured out :)
Btw, we're up to 24 interested people, it keeps getting better :)
Monday I should get the last offer from E&K with a little luck that should cut a few bucks off of the price :)

[AmigaGTI]

Hello!

I am from a1k.org.

Yes, iam interessted at one of the PCBs. If the price is under 130 US-Dollar for a PCB, i want one of it.

thx!

AmigaGTI

[Kristian95]

@AmigaGTI:

Consider yourself added :) As things are I am pretty sure that even with shipping included the price for the pcbs will be below $130 as the pcbs seem to end up around $50-60 :)

[Hodgkinson]

I would love to build one of these, but unfortunately I don't have the necessary parts ('030, 68882 etc), only one A500 (If I am right in saying that this is the source of the custom chips...), and not enough time to build one.

Sigh,
Hodgkinson.
(Secretly hoping that the specs of either this or the Minimig, or both, will approach that of an A4000 some day… :-D )

[gazgod]

You can add me to the list too. I defiantly want one too.

Gaz

[skurk]

Kristian95 wrote:
@AmigaGTI:

Consider yourself added :) As things are I am pretty sure that even with shipping included the price for the pcbs will be below $130 as the pcbs seem to end up around $50-60 :)

Do you have a deadline for the pre-orders? When do you expect to order the (first?) batch?

[hakker]

@Kristian95

I like to order 1 (one) board also.

I can't wait.. :-D [quote]

[amigadave]

Hodgkinson wrote:
I would love to build one of these, but unfortunately I don't have the necessary parts ('030, 68882 etc), only one A500 (If I am right in saying that this is the source of the custom chips...), and not enough time to build one.

Sigh,
Hodgkinson.
(Secretly hoping that the specs of either this or the Minimig, or both, will approach that of an A4000 some day… :-D )

If you look at the speed test comparisons, the GBA1000 replacement mobo is much faster than an A3000 and an 030/A4000. With GB still working on an add-on graphics card for it, there is the possibility of having better than AGA graphics for this computer in the future.

So, I think that today and in the near future your wish will have come true and you will have the opportunity to have a new Amiga that is close to or better than an A4000.

I also have hopes that the NatAmi project will yield results that are better than a stock A4000 within the next year or two.

[Kristian95]

@gazgod & hakker:

Consider yourself added to the list :)

General info:

Once we have a price locked (should be within this week I hope) I'll start collecting your addresses so I can find out what shipping costs will be, then I'll have people pay the money for the pcbs and shipping and once I have the money I'll order the pcbs and make sure they are shipped to all of you.

I will have all the pcbs shipped from the factory to my place in California (Bay area) and if people are able to pick up the board in person (to save shipping) they'll be welcome to do so. Else I'll ship the pcbs to whereever you are, of course you pay shipping and packaging (cardboard box, bubble wrap and packaging peanuts).
I will require payment in advance as I do not have the funds to pay up front myself.
I expect, once I have a price locked, to give you guys 1-2 weeks to send payment and once I have received all the payments I will order the pcbs.

I'll (of course) keep you updated when things progress.

EDIT: Once I have this run of pcbs done I will leave it to other people if they want to make 2nd or 3rd runs. Of course I'll help out with what pcb company I used if needed.

[Terse]

I would like to sign up for one too plase.

[Kristian95]

consider yourself added Terse :)

[amigadave]

Kristian95 wrote:
consider yourself added Terse :)

Have you reached the 30 mark yet?

[trekiej]

What method of payments will be accepted?

[Kristian95]

we're up to 29 people by now (I keep updating the count post on page 5... at some stage I'll make a new post with the counts).

As for payments, I'll prefer PayPal, that'll keep things simple for me, and that is definately prefered as there is plenty for me to coordinate with this already :)

[tabuhuso]

custom chip ok, but GAL chips is so problem...

[Illuwatar]

I may consider one if component availability could be guaranteed. The custom chips is one issue and programming the GAL/CPLD is an other one. I'm little afraid that this build ends up half-populated in a closet due to hard work getting the parts.

Regarding board manufacturer, have you checked out www.pcbcart.com? I used this company for my MiniITX-Minimig and they make nice boards for a decent price.

[amigadave]

Illuwatar wrote:
I may consider one if component availability could be guaranteed. The custom chips is one issue and programming the GAL/CPLD is an other one. I'm little afraid that this build ends up half-populated in a closet due to hard work getting the parts.

Regarding board manufacturer, have you checked out www.pcbcart.com? I used this company for my MiniITX-Minimig and they make nice boards for a decent price.

Perhaps GB can provide a source for the custom chips/GAL/CPLD?

[Plaz]

the pcbs seem to end up around $50-60 :)

I haven't read the thread in serveral days. If the price has come down to $60 + shipping/boxing, then count me in for one too.

Plaz

[Kristian95]

@ Plaz:

Consider yourself added then :)

@All:

I don't think anyone will be willing to guarantee availability of the custom chips.

[Kristian95]

Newest update on interested people:

Tron2k2, countzero, Jeff, mdivancic, skurk, damiraga, trekiej, amigadave, firedawg, TheGoose, Bandis, Ideal, jkonstan, shaf, Tahoe, BuzzBrain, Mercid, AmigaGTI, gazgod, hakker, Terse, Plaz, Illuwatar, zosodk69 = 24 people

I have spoken to da9000 and he is interested as well (=25)

I myself would want one as well (=26)

People from EAB who are interested: Magic, Zetr0, lopos2000, Jope (=30)

People from A1k.org who are interested: evi, snowman (=32)

[amigadave]

Kristian95 wrote:
Newest update on interested people:

Tron2k2, countzero, Jeff, mdivancic, skurk, damiraga, trekiej, amigadave, firedawg, TheGoose, Bandis, Ideal, jkonstan, shaf, Tahoe, BuzzBrain, Mercid, AmigaGTI, gazgod, hakker, Terse, Plaz = 22 people

I have spoken to da9000 and he is interested as well (=23)

I myself would want one as well (=24)

People from EAB who are interested: Magic, Zetr0, lopos2000, Jope (=28)

People from A1k.org who are interested: evi, snowman (=30)

I think it is time to collect the money and send the order off to the pcb manufacturer. Don't give the interested people 3 weeks to send their money, if they are serious they should be able to send it within 7 to 10 days to your Paypal account or through regular mail.

My son lives in the Bay area and can pick up my board in person when it arrives as I will be seeing him a few times this summer, so I can go up and get it from him, or he can bring it to me when he visits Southern Calif.

I would have liked to had the board here when my June 21st Amiga meeting is happening, but perhaps I can arrange another meeting in the Fall, or Winter and show it to the other members then.

30 buyers, let's GO! :-D

[Illuwatar]

Sign me in for one too - if it is not too complicated to send it to Sweden. I'll take the risk for $50 (the rate is good now) having it as a decoration in my living room... (due to component issues). I'll will see this as a "fill out" between other projects as I need to build a case too.

[zosodk69]

Please add me to the list!

[Kristian95]

I'll get the train rolling soon, I still want to have a final quote from E&K, I should have that within the next 2-3 days :)
After that I will start collecting peoples addresses and figure out where I can get the packaging materials I will need (30+ proper sized boxes, a lot of bubble wrap and peanuts) and get the shipping costs to the different parts of the world sorted out. Once that is done I will need everyones e-mails as well so I can send the PayPal payment requests to all of you. After receiving payment (I'll allow max 2 weeks to get that done) I'll order the pcbs and ship them as soon as I can once they arrive :)

[Kristian95]

@Illuwatar:

I'm already going to ship pcbs to Europe so one more will not be a problem :) I've yet to estimate the shipping and packaging costs but expect the total of those to be less than $50 too :) I've added you to the list.


@zosodk69:

Consider yourself added to the list :)

[Plaz]

I don't think anyone will be willing to guarantee availability of the custom chips

Where can I read about details on custom chips needed?

Plaz

[Plaz]

I can get the packaging materials I will need (30+ proper sized boxes, a lot of bubble wrap and peanuts)

Pizza boxes should just about fit.... and might be resonably priced at the local Dominos. (http://www.dominos.com/home/index.jsp) :-P Eh, maybe not good for international shipping.

Plaz

[koaftder]

It figures this comes around when I'm unemployed. :-(

[Kristian95]

@Plaz:

The link to Georg's homepage is in the first post of this thread. There you can download the Eagle files (pcb setup) and it includes an excell file containing the component list :) The page is in German but the info is easy to find :)

@koaftder:

Sorry to hear that mate :(

[Kristian95]

Ok, I figured I might as well begin collecting peoples addresses, so please pm me your address, also please include your PayPal account name so I can send an invoice as soon as I have the total price figured out :)

[Kristian95]

Ok, I've started looking for shipping boxes...
The board is about 12.5 x 13.5 inches so I figured any box that is about 14 x 15 inches should be good.

I've come up with this website:
http://www.uline.com/

Which of the following boxes would you think is better suited?

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.asp?model=S-4410
http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.asp?model=S-1491
http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.asp?model=S-4626

Cheers,

Kristian

[Jeff]

Pizza boxes work great! Check with the local Pizza place:-D

-Jeff

[jkonstan]

Kristian, Jeff is correct about the pizza boxes.

Pizza boxes are a pretty good low cost way to ship pcbs or motherboards. I bought an old A3000 motherboard years ago that was shipped to me in a pizza box with bubble wrap, and it arrived safely.

:-)

[Kristian95]

I'm not sure I'd trust a pizza box to withstand international shipping... besides the cheapest of the boxes I have seen are less than $1 per box :) of course bubble wrap and peanuts will make it a little more, but I'd say it's worth it not to worry about receiving broken pcbs :)

[Plaz]

Ok, the GALs/PALs I can program. I'm working on translating the section 2.4 boot rom PDL info. Any one have more detail on this? Is it programmed while installed in the board? It looks like you build the 1000, boot up, then run the util that programs the PDL. Do I have this right?

Plaz

[Kristian95]

Newest update on interested people:

Tron2k2, countzero, Jeff, mdivancic, skurk, damiraga, trekiej, amigadave, firedawg, TheGoose, Bandis, Ideal, jkonstan, shaf, Tahoe, BuzzBrain, Mercid, AmigaGTI, gazgod, hakker, Terse, Plaz, Illuwatar, zosodk69, koaftder = 25 people

I have spoken to da9000 and he is interested as well (=26)

I myself would want one as well (=27)

People from EAB who are interested: Magic, Zetr0, lopos2000, Jope, chiark, frost242 (=33)

People from A1k.org who are interested: evi, snowman (=35)

[Kristian95]

@Plaz:

I'll look through the "manual" that Georg has written, I'll see what I can find on that subject :)

[Plaz]

@Kristian95

He has done a nice manual. Too bad I can't read well :-) I'll try one of the online translators tonight and see if that helps too.

Plaz

[Kristian95]

I read German, I'll try translating the whole thing... it'll take a while and someone might want to read it and polish my English :)

[amigadave]

Kristian95 wrote:
I read German, I'll try translating the whole thing... it'll take a while and someone might want to read it and polish my English :)

Great! I was hoping someone would translate GB's manual for those of us that don't read German.

Thanks

[Plaz]

@Kristian95

I can help proof your translation. Maybe you can make it easier by tackle it only a section or two at a time.

Plaz

[Kristian95]

Ok guys, I have finished the translation :) I think my English is understandable but since neither German nor English are my mother tongues I may be mistaken hehehe :)
I'm asking Georg about whether he is ok with me releasing the translation before I'll make it available so please be patient for a little while longer (I already contacted Georg) :)

[Kristian95]

Ok guys, as previously stated I need your addresses and PayPal account name so I can send the invoice to you... following is a list of those of you who have not yet sent me all the required info:

Got them all now :-) Thanks guys!! :-)

[Ideal]

Have pm'ed you adress and paypal adress.

[Kristian95]

super, thanks Ideal :)

[Ideal]

Is there any way to arrange a group buy for all the most difficult bits, like these GAL chips people have been discussing.. so that nobody ends up with a board without bits they need?

[Kristian95]

You can find a list of components needed on Georg's homepage (link in the first post of this thread). Georg even lists 3 German suppliers and their prices and part numbers for the components needed (apart from the Amiga custom chips of course)

[Ideal]

Kristian95 wrote:
You can find a list of components needed on Georg's homepage (link in the first post of this thread). Georg even lists 3 German suppliers and their prices and part numbers for the components needed (apart from the Amiga custom chips of course)

But what are these GAL chips? There is a post above here where a person indicates they have to be programmed.
I mean, I can easily plunder an A500+ motherboard for amiga chips, but what are these other chips and why can we not buy the other hard to get chips together?


Plaz wrote:
Ok, the GALs/PALs I can program. I'm working on translating the section 2.4 boot rom PDL info. Any one have more detail on this? Is it programmed while installed in the board? It looks like you build the 1000, boot up, then run the util that programs the PDL. Do I have this right?

Plaz

[Kristian95]

Here is the info about the chips from the item list that you can download from Georgs homepage:

(IC#,Item name, German store that carries it, item name in store and price

IC14, GAL16V8-15, elpro - Elektronik, GAL 16 V 8 D-15 LP, 0.70€

IC18, GAL16V8-15, elpro - Elektronik, GAL 16 V 8 D-15 LP, 0.70€

IC19, GAL16V8-25, elpro - Elektronik, GAL 16 V 8 D-25 LP, 0.70€

and so on.

The GALs have to be programmed but are definately available. If you want to have the complete list of components needed please get the list from Georg's site.

EDIT: I have translated Georg's user guide into English and am avaiting his "go" as to making it available on-line.

EDIT2: The EPROM IC34 (27C256) must be programmed with the AT-BUS 2008 data (found here: http://amiga.resource.cx/expde/atbus2008)

[Kristian95]

Newest update on interested people (people in bold have yet to supply their address and/or PayPal info to me):

Tron2k2, countzero, Jeff, mdivancic, skurk, damiraga, trekiej, amigadave, Firedawg, TheGoose, Bandis, Ideal, jkonstan, shaf, Tahoe, BuzzBrain, Mercid, AmigaGTI, gazgod, hakker, Terse, Plaz, Illuwatar, zosodk69, Fester, koaftder, mike- = 27 people

I have spoken to da9000 and he is interested as well (=28)

I myself would want one as well (=29)

People from EAB who are interested: chiark, Zetr0, lopos2000, Jope, frost242 (=34)

People from A1k.org who are interested: snowman, Amiga-Digital, mc68000 (=37)

The total number of people who have given me the info needed is: 37 of 37 :-)

[TheGoose]

Ok, PM sent...

:-)

[Kristian95]

Super, got it TheGoose :)

[Plaz]

Paypal info added for me too.

Plaz

[Kristian95]

Super :) Thanks Plaz!! :)

[Jeff]

There was a post from "Jens" somewhere in a thread recently (last week or two I think) about the NG1000 boards and having them made. He was talking about how some manufacturers don't properly remove the moisture from the inner layers when making multi-layer boards and these have a high defect rate. He also detailed information about how to bake the moisture out as part of the manufacturing process. I was going to pass along this information but I can't find the thread now. Perhaps this should be taken into consideration when shopping for the company to make these boards.

This project will represent a significant investment in both time and money to complete. I would hate to go to the lengths needed to build one only to find the board has a problem with one of the inner layers and can't ever be made to work or is plagued with unsolvable reliability problems.

Anyone have any input? There are several people on A1k.org that have working boards. Perhaps we should be looking to them for advice for companies to make the boards. Does anyone else remember "Jens" posts?

-Jeff

[Kristian95]

The company the people at A1k.org used is E&K.
I have been in touch with E&K and the company I am considering using is a Taiwanese company that a person of E&K is connecting me to (I get their quotes through E&K). I am pretty sure that E&K do not want to risk their good name by people up with another bad company.

[Jeff]

@Kristian95

Sounds good! I have to hand it to you. You sure have done your homework and spent a lot of time on this already. I hope you end up with one of the first working boards of the batch if it all goes well.

-Jeff

[wolfchild]

@Jeff

I used to work with an electronics R&D and manufacturing company and when we ordered PCB's, we specified 100% electrical test for the panels. This increases the cost somewhat, but electrically defective PCB's are rejected at the supplier.

About the moisture problem, this should not really affect manually soldered boards, as they are only heated slowly and in localized areas. The way I see it, moisture in the inner layers would only cause damage when the board is soldered by mass production methods (wave soldering or IR reflow oven). For production soldering the board is heated to 260C in a matter of seconds and the instantaneous pressure from the produced steam causes the board layers to separate and break connections.

Incidentally, this is also the reason why RoHS components are so critical to moisture and have a pre-soldering baking requirement.

[Jeff]

Well I will say that all of you are very well educated in areas that are just hobbies to me. Surely there will me enough technical expertise to make this work. Amigans are an amazing bunch of very resourceful people. Can't find the motherboard you want just build it!

-Jeff

[Kristian95]

@Jeff:

Thanks mate :) I figured that it was about time to give something back to the community plus I really love the A1000 design to death :)

EDIT: The boards I'll be ordering will all be electrically tested at the factory :)

[Kristian95]

For those of you who might wonder about it, Georg has just confirmed to me that the Flicker Fixer and the HD Controller are optional parts of the motherboard that do not have to be built for the board to work.

EDIT: If building the board without Flicker Fixer no special measures have to be made.

If you build the board without the HD controller you have to change the Auto config chain, this can be done connecting pin 9 and 16 in the socket for IC 19 with a 10R resistor.

[Kristian95]

I am in the middle of finding out whether it is possible for us to make (small) donations to Georg.
I for one think he deserves a small donation from everyone who will be building the board he designed :)

[trekiej]

Could someone tell us if the board will have a solder mask along with the silk screen already put on the board?
I am sorry if this was already stated.
I understand that a mask for putting down paste can be bought.

[Kristian95]

@ trekiej:

Here are the details about the pcb that will be ordered:

4 Layer (35µm , 35µm , 35µm , 35µm)
1x Materials (FR4 0,71 35/35)
4x Prepreg (7628,7628,7628,7628)
Thickness: 1.54mm
Panelsize: 344.488mm x 314.007mm

4648 Drills. / Panel.
21 Drill changes
Smallest drill Ø: 0.3mm
Technologie: >= 150µm
SMD: doppelseitig >= 1/50"
Finish: chem. Ni/Au
Soldermask: on both sides
Identprints: 1
Peel off mask: no
Mech. working: Fräsen;
E-Test: Yes

[trekiej]

Great. Thanks.

[Kristian95]

Tron2k,shaf, AmigaGTI and hakker I have PM'ed you. Please send me your address and PayPal info ASAP if you are still interested in a GB A1000 board.

[Kristian95]

Update on the User's guide...

The English version of the User's guide for the GB A1000 motherboard will, among other things, contain a Component List (in English) plus information on which files need to be programmed in the GAL chips and where to obtain the files. The guide will also explain what to do if you do not build the optional flicker fixer part and/or the optional IDE controller part as well as a pinout of the A1000 PSU, in case you will use the board somewhere else than in an A1000 case :).

EDIT: The guide is currently being proof read and will hopefully be ready for you guys some time in the coming week :)

[Ratte]

@Kristian95:
Wait 2 more weeks and check the prices for the addon-graphiccard.
< GBA1000-graphiccard > (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36440)

[TjLaZer]

OK I am interested but can someone summarize how this will work? Is the PCB going to be blank and what all would need to be done to get it working? I have chips I can use from a 3000T mobo and others. How much will the board be?

[Kristian95]

the board will be blank, it will cost around $60 plus shipping and you there is a component list available on Georg's (the designer of the board) homepage (link in post 1 of this thread). You will need to program some GAL chips to get the board up and running. The user's guide is currently only available in German but I am working on a translation which should be available within this week.

If you are still interested in getting a pcb pm me your address and PayPal info as I will require payment in advance before I will order the pcbs.

If you are not interested let me know if you might be interested in selling your A3000T motherboard to me :)

[Kristian95]

@Ratte:

I'll do the mainboard pcb run for now and then later on maybe start another run for CF adapter and gfx card pcbs :) ... unless someone else is going to organize that (I wouldn't mind that one bit!! :))

[Bandis]

@Kristian95

Looks like the project is coming together nicely.

A few thoughts though from a humble electronics newbie-tinkerer.

1. Could the boards be made with pre-tinned solderpads? It would speed up the smd soldering I think. cost vs practicality?

2. Will you compare notes with Georg before sending off the order? I dont know if this is a problem anymore but I have read about people getting PCBs back without layers connected just because they forgot to check or add that option. (wich would be default set to yes in my opinion?)

3. I see there are over 30 boards to order now, do you know when the next price break is?

4. Will the boards be blue? (well anything but booooring green since I personally will have this in a plexiglass kind of housing) :-)

...and when we are at it. Gold Plating? :-D

5. Will the boards have a silk screen? (this is perhaps "identprint"?)I think for a board like this getting into the hands of people with varying degrees of electronic skills, outlining what goes where with designators could be quite helpful.

6. Keep up the good work!

regards
Bandis

[Kristian95]

@Bandis:

Here is a repeat of the specs of the pcb we are getting made:

4 Layer (35µm , 35µm , 35µm , 35µm)
1x Materials (FR4 0,71 35/35)
4x Prepreg (7628,7628,7628,7628)
Thickness: 1.54mm
Panelsize: 344.488mm x 314.007mm

4648 Drills. / Panel.
21 Drill changes
Smallest drill Ø: 0.3mm
Technologie: >= 150µm
SMD: doppelseitig >= 1/50"
Finish: chem. Ni/Au
Soldermask: on both sides
Identprints: 1
Peel off mask: no
Mech. working: Fräsen;
E-Test: Yes

To answer your questions:

1. I don't know, but don't think they will be pre-tinned.

2. The pcbs are ordered through the same company Georg used hence there should be no problems regarding the boards working.

3. I don't know when the next price break is. At the moment only 29 of the 34 people have given me the info I need before I can even begin considering making the order, so we might end up with 29 boards.

4. The boards will indeed be blue :) and as you can read from the spec list, they will also be gold plated.

5. edited! I was sure silk screen was mentioned but I see it is not. I have contacted the manufacturer to hear what the price will be with silk screen :)

6. thanks :)


Also remember that within this week I should have a finished, translated, version of the GB A1000 motherboard guide ready for everyone to download :)

[Illuwatar]

I'm really waiting for this...

So gathering the odd pieces is in progress. I found a good source for the Amiga bits in this place: http://www.oldsoftware.com/

I ordered the Amber and Agnus here. Otherwise, eBay is the way to go (if you are lucky).

These video hybrids - what are these for components and where can these be found? I assume these are some kind of video drivers, taking the digital RGB and converting it to analog. It seems there are two of them at the PCB. If they are hard to obtain, maybe it would be possible to make them?

Maybe we should start a new thread for the subject "Getting the parts for the A1000 PCB..."?

[Ratte]

Kristian95 wrote:
@Ratte:

I'll do the mainboard pcb run for now and then later on maybe start another run for CF adapter and gfx card pcbs :) ... unless someone else is going to organize that (I wouldn't mind that one bit!! :))

Dont you think, that a combined request for both pcb´s could drop the price a little bit more?
Wait just two more weeks ...

btw.: what are the actual offer for mainboard-the pcb with shipping to germany?

later on, the graphiccard is also a must have ...
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3994.jpg

[Bandis]

Kristian95

Perhaps a deadline date should be set for final payment?

If you are not in a rush make it the end of the month?

We could also see where the gfx card is in development at that time. Sure it will drag on but getting the PCBs done will only be a tiny step on the long road getting the PCB working anyway. :-)

regards
Bandis

[schneemann]

@ALL: hello, I'm the new one :-D. actually coming from www.a1k.org (http://www.a1k.org/forum/index.php) but in oder to participate in the activities of the "GB A1000 redo", i decided to register here as well :-o .

@Kristian95: just for your synchronization, my a1k.org-account is "snowman" :-D

BTW:
i already would like to start collecting the electronic devices step by step while the process of pcb-ordering is ongoing.
what requirements do I have to consider regarding the CPU :-?.
i know it must be a 68030 PGA (http://cbmmuseum.kuto.de/cpu_mc68030.html), but what about stepping, masking, clocking etc.?

[Illuwatar]

The board supports 40 MHz or 50 MHz CPU/FPU. After studying the documentation (my german sucks rather hard) and looking at the schematics, I can't see that you need any "special" '030/882. I managed to source a 40 MHz 030 at eBay that I will try to run at 50 MHz... :madashell: ...still missing a 68882 @ 50 MHz.

[schneemann]

@Ratte: GB's new project is causing me really a headache :-D. i do not know the A1K in detail but I think it will be a bit hard to put a NIC together with a graphics adapter in the original housing => I'm getting :crazy:

[Kristian95]

@Ratte:

The pcb (without shipping) is just around $60, my guess is shipping to Germany will add about $40 but I will know more soon as I am about to find that out.
The boards are gotten through E&K (they are mediating the manufacture by a Taiwan company thus the Eagle files will be used and because of it being through E&K we know the boards will be working ones) :)
I'm not sure making an additional order for other boards would do much to lower the cost apart from combined shipping.

[Kristian95]

@Bandis:

I will probably start sending out invoices by end of this week and I don't plan to wait for the gfx card because I'm not sure everyone will want to make one once a working prototype is made.
Once we have the boards we could make a new order organization for: Front slot CF adapter, gfx card etc.

@All:

In a day or two my translation of the user's guide should be ready, it contains a component list which includes the names of the places where Georg found the non-custom chips.

[schneemann]

Kristian95 wrote:
Once we have the boards we could make a new order organization for: Front slot CF adapter, gfx card etc.


i agree from my side.

[Terse]

Slightly off topic, but any chance there is space to write a message or dedication on the silkscreen of the board? Something simple like:

George Braun’s Amiga 1000
Built by and for the Amiga Community

[mike-]

I'd like one

[Kristian95]

@mike:

If you want to get a pcb when they are ordered you need to pm me your address and PayPal account.

[Kristian95]

ok guys, I have a question for all of you who are getting their pcb:

Do you prefer I figure out shipping first and send you a total invoice or should I get money for the pcbs first and once I have them figure out shipping and then send invoices for shipping costs?

[koaftder]

Add me to the list for the PCB.

[Kristian95]

@koaftder:

I'll add you as soon as you pm me your shipping address and PayPal account name.

[koaftder]

Kristian95 wrote:
@koaftder:

I'll add you as soon as you pm me your shipping address and PayPal account name.

Thank God I ran into some money before the cutoff. PM sent.

[Fester]

Kristian95 wrote:
Do you prefer I figure out shipping first and send you a total invoice or should I get money for the pcbs first and once I have them figure out shipping and then send invoices for shipping costs?

Whichever makes life easier for you. I don't mind separate invoices or a single one.

[schneemann]

Kristian95 wrote:
ok guys, I have a question for all of you who are getting their pcb:

Do you prefer I figure out shipping first and send you a total invoice or should I get money for the pcbs first and once I have them figure out shipping and then send invoices for shipping costs?

just choose the easiest way :-D
i thank you anyway for your efforts.

[Kristian95]

@koaftder:

Consider yourself added :)

[Kristian95]

I'll probably end up doing 2 invoices then, because then I can get the ordering of the pcbs done faster (I think) and I can let everyone select a preferred shipping method/company :)

[Kristian95]

I have just investigated PayPal fees. I have recently moved from Denmark to the US and my PayPal account is still linked to Denmark. Therefore there is a fee of 6.4% + $0.50 on the transactions. I estimate the pcbs to cost $60, but unfortunately to cover the PayPal fees you'll probably have to pay $65 then... you can calculate the fee here: http://ppcalc.com/

Sorry about this but I don't think I should take a hit on the PayPal fees :(

[Jeff]

Agreed, I'll be happy to cover the Paypal fees. I appreciate all of your effort. I simply do not have the time right now to organize something like this and I probably would not have looked into it any further.

Actually getting mine put together will be another story:-) I hope we can all make it happen.

[Kristian95]

:) I'm happy to do the organizing :)
Btw, tomorrow or thursday I hope to have the user's guide ready, that should help everyone figure out what they need to make the board :)

[Jeff]

@Kristian95

Have you figured out how much additional it will be to have the silkscreening done or is that already included in the latest quote? I would like mine silkscreened if possible.

-Jeff

[Kristian95]

I am awaiting the reply on silkscreen from the manufacturer, I should have the quote tomorrow. I will have all boards silkscreened :) I'm pretty sure it won't make a big dent in the pcb price :)

[Kristian95]

I don't mind shipping all UK boards to the 4 people in the UK ordering it to one person.
Here is a summary of the locations people ordered from:

USA: 13 ppl +2 pick up +me
UK: 4 ppl
Norway: 4 ppl
Sweden: 2 ppl
Netherlands: 1 person
Japan: 1 person
Finland: 1 person
France: 1 person
Germany: 1 person
Canada: 1 person

Total: 32

Would it make sense to send all European pcbs to one person?

I will send all boards marked "gift"

[Plaz]

Wow, I'm suprised the bulk is located in the US. Good thing we're working on that english version of the manual. I thought with the nice exchange rate for Europe, it would be a cheap buy with more takers. But then it will be a greater shipping cost, so I guess it all evens out.

Plaz

[amigadave]

Kristian95 wrote:
I am awaiting the reply on silkscreen from the manufacturer, I should have the quote tomorrow. I will have all boards silkscreened :) I'm pretty sure it won't make a big dent in the pcb price :)

Is there a pdf of the silkscreen to be printed on the board that we can see? Is there any room anywhere on the board to customize our run of 30 boards with something witty and interesting?

I mean this is really quite an amazing thing we are doing and it should be noted on the mobo somewhere, even if it is just a word or two.

What do the rest of you think of this idea? Since the board is being silkscreened anyway, it should not make any difference in the cost.

[Kristian95]

There is a copy of the silkscreen (not to scale) in the user's guide, which will soon be available.
I must admit I would prefer not to change anything to keep things simple, sorry :)

[amigadave]

Kristian95 wrote:
There is a copy of the silkscreen (not to scale) in the user's guide, which will soon be available.
I must admit I would prefer not to change anything to keep things simple, sorry :)

Not even a simple "Kristian 2008" added to one edge or corner to show that these 30 boards were done here and now? Give yourself some credit for putting this together.

[Kristian95]

Hehehe honestly I think Georg is the one who deserves the credit :) Anyone could organize this, not everyone could actually design that board :)

You can download the pdf with the silkscreen of the pcb top here: http://rapidshare.com/files/123238130/Silk_screen__top.pdf.html

[amigadave]

Well, I thought that there would already be some kind of recognition for Georg on the board, but see that there is not.

On another topic, have you written to Georg about the availability of the chips required to complete the board. Are there many chips that must be custom programmed, such as the GAL chips, or is there a source for them, preprogrammed?

I hope that the 30 buyers will work together in collaborating on how and where to obtain the parts to get our boards working. I don't have a problem scavenging chips and components from old, non-working Amiga computers, or buying new components from Digi-key and the like. But, as one reluctant buyer stated before, I don't want this to turn out to be a half finished project that ends up in my closet.

[skurk]

What amigadave said.

I want as many new parts as possible on my GB board. The fewer scavenged parts, the longer it'll last.

[Plaz]

We may be on our own for PAL/GAL programming. I'll probably be able to help there, but I won't make a promise yet untill I get more details. Any one else in the group handy with a burner?

Plaz

[countzero]

there are 10 GALs in the parts list. There is also a Lattice PLD that must be programmed. I think someone must volunteer and do the programming and finish his board first. Then if he's succesful we can get the programmed chips from him. I really would like the programmed chips tested before they're sent to me. Once we get a board working, it shouldn't take a lot of time to program 10 chips ?

[skurk]

Plaz wrote:
Any one else in the group handy with a burner?

I have two, one can program GAL16V8 chips. Don't know about the other one, but with a little luck, that one does the PAL's...

[trekiej]

I have a Xeltek pro z.
I have not used it yet.
I would like to give it a try soon.

[Kristian95]

as for parts, Georg has made a parts list that includes German vendors who have all the non custom chip parts including the item numbers by those vendors. The list is available on Georg's homepage (in German) and I am including it in the guide, which I will make available either later today or tomorrow California time :)

[Ideal]

Plaz wrote:
We may be on our own for PAL/GAL programming.


countzero wrote:
there are 10 GALs in the parts list. There is also a Lattice PLD that must be programmed. I think someone must volunteer and do the programming and finish his board first. Then if he's succesful we can get the programmed chips from him.

I would appreciate it if we could all take a little more time to focus on this issue please. Also Kristian95.

Is it possible to ask the designer of this board to program the chips for us perhaps? For a fee of course.

If it is so that these chips have to be programmed and the board will not work without them, why are we sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that it is not a problem if we can not get this programming done?

[koaftder]

Can we use the pals of an a1k?

[Kristian95]

I don't think we can use the A1000 GALs, if we could I think Georg would have mentioned it in his components list (they're listed as bought from an electronics store).
The GALs definately have to be programmed, I'll contact Georg and hear whether he'll be able to do this for us, I can't make any promises though. I know a guy at EAB (Zetr0) who can do this kind of programming too, I'll ask him too, but again I can't make any promises.

[jkonstan]

Kristian,

Please ask Georg for the Source code (Abel, Palasm, Verilog, VHDL, or CUPL) and the Jedec files for the GALs. I have some old PAL/GAL compilers and a USB TOP2005 programmer.

:-)

[countzero]

the source codes are already there.

project page (http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/projekte.htm)
Schematics and GAL codes (http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/download/a1kboard.zip)

[Plaz]

@Ideal

I would appreciate it if we could all take a little more time to focus on this issue please.

Such chip programming services are available. Here's one example. http://www.hobbyroms.com/

I won't mind programming chips for others, but I'll have to do some testing before being confident about it.

Plaz

[amigadave]

jkonstan wrote:
Kristian,

Please ask Georg for the Source code (Abel, Palasm, Verilog, VHDL, or CUPL) and the Jedec files for the GALs. I have some old PAL/GAL compilers and a USB TOP2005 programmer.

:-)

Does this mean that you might consider programming the needed chips for some of the other GB A1000 mobo buyers that cannot program the chips for themselves?

I hope so. I would be willing to compensate you for your time to program the required GAL chips. If you do this service for the whole group, you may be able to recoup a good part, or all of the cost for your own mobo purchase.

[Kristian95]

I've been in touch with Zetr0 at EAB regarding programming of GALs for the GB A1000 board, here is his reply:

As long as people are happy to pay for postage I am happy to program them.. obviously it would be easier to do it in batches, but i don't mind do a run of chips per-person for the board.... infact i think it might be fun.


So, I'll leave it up to you guys to perhaps organize a batch programming tour and also leave it up to you guys to contact Zetr0 at EAB about this :)

[jkonstan]

There are Jedec programming files (fuse maps) for the GALs in the zipped files, and no source code for the GALs. GALs can be programmed from the Jedec files (fuse map). However, GALs can not be recompiled since there are no source files for them (Abel, Palasm, Cupl, Verilog, or VHDL).

:-)

[Kristian95]

why would you want to recompile them?

[skurk]

jkonstan wrote:
Please ask Georg for the Source code (Abel, Palasm, Verilog, VHDL, or CUPL) and the Jedec files for the GALs. I have some old PAL/GAL compilers and a USB TOP2005 programmer.

Sure the Top2005 takes PAL's? They aren't on the compability list (http://www.top2048.com/gb/DeviceList/device2005.txt) (and neither for my Top2007 programmer)

[Plaz]

BTW, I was wondering....
Did any one ever ask why Georg desided to use solder mounted memory instead of using pluggable simms of some kind?

Plaz

[jkonstan]

According to the device list, TOP2005 should handle some of the basic GALs. The schematic shows GALs not PALs.

____PLD-???
16V8, 16V8A, 16V8B, 20V8, 20V8A, 20V8B, 22V10, 22V10A,
____PLD-ATMEL
ATF16V8, ATF16V8B, ATF16V8BL, ATF16V8BQ, ATF16V8BQL, ATF16V8C, ATF16V8CEXT, ATF16V8CZ,
ATF20V8, ATF20V8B, ATF20V8BL, ATF20V8BQL, ATF22V10, ATF22V10L, ATF22V10B/L,
____PLD-LATTICE
GAL16V8, GAL16V8A, GAL16V8B, GAL16V8C, GAL16V8D, GAL20V8, GAL20V8A, GAL20V8B, GAL22V10,
GAL22V10A,
____PLD-NS
GAL16V8, GAL16V8A, GAL20V8, GAL20V8A, GAL20V8, GAL22V10,,
____PLD-SGS/THOMSON
GAL16V8, GAL16V8A, GAL16V8AS, GAL16V8S, GAL20V8, GAL20V8A, GAL20V8AS, GAL20V8S, GAL22V10,
____PLD-VLSI
VP16V8, VP20V8

[Kristian95]

The User's Guide is not completely finished, but most of it is finished. Therefore I'll now let all of you get a look at it... find it here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/123626628/GB_A1000_User_s_Guide_v0.7.pdf.html

[Bandis]

@Kristian95

Nice work with the manual! will you update page 1 with the blue board and the layout schematic on page 17 and onwards to reflect the changes on the updated board?

[voyager]

Can you please upload the manual someware els? I mean

Only enter symbols attached to a cat. it all looks like cats. Afer that The download cannot be provided. Please check, if your browser supports Javascript I have java you stupit page :madashell:

[koaftder]

OMG, that is the hardest captcha I have ever seen. 8 Tries and I still can't pass it.

[Bandis]

Yes that test definately separates Bots from humans.




:lol:

[Fester]

Kristian,

Thanks for translating this manual. I wasn't able to download it however, the code is more than 4 characters and the input box from Firefox doesn't take more than 4 characters...

[CD32Freak]

@voyager and others
Try to download the PDF file from here:
http://www.filefactory.com/file/daab3c/

[Plaz]

@ Fester

You must only enter the characters that have a cat picture attached to them. Some chatacters have dogs or birds. It's hard to tell the difference. Only 4 characters have cats. Look hard. :-)

Plaz

[Kristian95]

@Bandis:

Hehehehe once I have the blue board and it has all the nice components on it, sure I'll update the front page :)

[Kristian95]

@CD32Freak:

Thanks for helping out :)

[Kristian95]

@Everyone:

When you read the guide, please feel free to send me comments if there are things you find need improvement (constructive criticism will be preferred :))... of course you're also more than welcome to tell me if you like the guide :)

[Plaz]

FYI....

Build GAL programmer for Amiga (http://aminet.net/package/driver/other/GALer21)

Plaz

[Firedawg]

@Kristian95

You're awesome Brother! Nice work, and a component list to boot...(no pun intended :lol:)

I appreciate the hard work you have put into this project.

Mike

[Kristian95]

you're most welcome :)
Once we're as far as building the boards I'll make a new thread where we can share pictures of our builds :)
I should have the final quote from E&K within very few days, as soon as it's in I'll e-mail invoices for the boards and of course keep you all updated on the production and shipping run :)
Can't wait to see the boards and to ship them to you guys :) hehehe I'm too hyper for my own good... probably because I just received a mint A1000 today, once I cleaned the gunk off of it I got to see a shiny white keyboard and main unit :D

[jkonstan]

@amigadave

Depending on my schedule at work, I might be able to help by programming some of the GALs; however, I really would want to get a GB1000 mainboard running first so that I could test the programmed GALS. Also, GALs are fairly ESD sensitive where they can intially work fine and later fail due an ESD damage event(usually resulting in CMOS latchup). Thus, everyone has really got to use ESD precautions when working them.

:-)

[mdivancic]

Kristian95 wrote:
ok guys, I have a question for all of you who are getting their pcb:

Do you prefer I figure out shipping first and send you a total invoice or should I get money for the pcbs first and once I have them figure out shipping and then send invoices for shipping costs?

What ever is easier for you!

[mdivancic]

amigadave wrote:
I hope that the 30 buyers will work together in collaborating on how and where to obtain the parts to get our boards working. I don't have a problem scavenging chips and components from old, non-working Amiga computers, or buying new components from Digi-key and the like. But, as one reluctant buyer stated before, I don't want this to turn out to be a half finished project that ends up in my closet.

Can we set up a blog here or somewhere to do this?

[Kristian95]

The easy thing would be to open a new thread for parts ordering :)

[countzero]

WOW !

It’s Happy Hour!

Download your file without security questions. Have Fun!

Gotta love japanese time :)

[mdivancic]

Kristian95 wrote:
The easy thing would be to open a new thread for parts ordering :)

Thread's get hard to follow and find. Blogs can be like messages boards, but dedicated to a topic for easy reference. Maybe Wayne could give us are own topic? What about a Wiki? We've used these at work for project and they can work quite well?

[Kristian95]

Ok guys here is the _final quote for the PCB... get ready for a nice surprise :) (Shipping/PCB = Shipping from factory to me).

#PCBs: 34

Price/PCB: $43.28
Set-up cost/PCB: $3.33
Shipping/PCB: $5.20
PayPal Fees/PCB: $4.65
----------------------
Total Cost per PCB: $56.46

This includes Silkscreen as well. Invoices will be sent today :)

Deadline for payment will be June 30th 2008.

Once the PCBs are ordered I will start working on shipping costs (shipping the PCBs from me to you) and notify you of the costs and invoice you for those too :)

[amigadave]

Thanks Kristian95,

I am not doubting your calculations, but why is the PayPal fee so high? That amount is almost 10% of the payment and I have never had to pay that percentage to PayPal before when I have received money for Amiga items I have sold recently.

If PayPal is really charging you $158.10 just for 34 people to send you about $50 each, then something is wrong with their rates.

I am not complaining about the total cost and appreciate all your hard work in putting this production run together and making it happen for us all.

[Kristian95]

The fee is higher than you are used to because my PayPal account is in Denmark (I lived there until February this year). I used an on-line PayPal calculator and this is the result I got...
I would like to stress that even with the fee the cost per pcb is below $60 which I think is a pretty good price. For those who are not able to pick it up from me in person, shipping fee will come later but I am pretty sure it won't be too steep :)

EDIT: My PayPal account being Danish translates into a higher fee for the transfer, a fee for currency exchange and a fee when the money go from the PayPal account to my Bank account some time later (hopefully the pcbs will be shipped way before then!!)

[Kristian95]

I'm happy to announce that people have already started paying for the boards :) with the current speed of things I should be able to order the pcbs Monday or Tuesday next week :)

[Firedawg]

@Kristian95

Got your invoice for the board and the price is very fair. To avoid further PayPal transaction fees, is there any way to give us a flat shipping cost.

Granted some folks are outside the US and their costs will have to be calculated to reflect that additional shipping expense, but for us here in the US it should not be much difference in cost from one shipping zone to the next.

I rather pay for that cost now along with the board, given you can determine what packaging and other cost would be on your end plus the carriers cost.

If this is not possible I will understand. You have put a ton of time into this project and I do not want to create any more work for you than need be, just interjecting my two cents.

Thanks,
Mike

[Kristian95]

@Mike:

I understand your concern but the PayPal fee will not be less if you pay one large amount or two smaller amounts that amount to the same number (i.e $10 or $5 + $5)... at least not according to how I understand their fee system.
If I were to start doing proper calculations on the shipping I would be very roughly estimating as I don't have the weight of the board.

To calculate proper shipping costs I will want to have:

1. weight of the board
2. cost of packaging (I have most of that sorted)
3. preferred shipping method (I will probably use USPS express mail servie, insured)

I think in the long run I can get the boards to you faster by ordering the pcbs while I get the rest sorted out :)
Hope that is ok :)

[gazgod]

@Kristian95

Got your invoice and paid.

Thanks for the work.

Gaz

[Kristian95]

Super, thanks :) Glad to help out!
9 people have paid already! It's cool seeing the community stick together :)

[koaftder]

I'll make it 10 when you send me your paypal ID.

[Kristian95]

@koaftder:

I have sent an invoice to the PayPal account you supplied me with, just answer to that :)

[koaftder]

Kristian95 wrote:
@koaftder:

I have sent an invoice to the PayPal account you supplied me with, just answer to that :)

Dang, I didn't know that you could do that with PayPal. Payment sent. Thanks for all the work you've put into this. :-D

[Terse]

Payment submitted.
I'm really amazed at what you have managed to do Kristian.

[Kristian95]

@koaftder & Terse:

Payments received :) I am even picking up a few more orders from people at A1k.org... Georg is going to have spawned many children all over the world :lol: :lol:

[Kristian95]

13, 16, 20, 25, 31 of 37 payments received

[trekiej]

13 people paid and thirteen pages