Upgrading from Voodoo 3 3000 to 5500

[wurzel]

Hi all,

I just managed to get a Voodoo 5500 off Ebay ;)

If I just swapped that for the Voodoo 3 3000 I already have, would it work straightaway or do I need to re-install P96?

I'm guessing I can alter the mem setting to 63, as it has 64mb ram onboard?

Thanks for any help.

[zipper]

Probably you have to tinker with the Gfx address if using Warp3D.

[redrumloa]

I wouldn't do it.

[CLS2086]

Only 1 CPU will be used !
1 CPU can manage 32 Mb, but Mediator1200 can't do much than 8mb...

[Akiko]

@CLS2086



CPU can manage 32 Mb, but Mediator1200 can't do much than 8mb...


What about Mediator 4000?

[quenthal]

In many ways Voodoo 3 is better in Amiga use than Voodoo 5. Main advantages Voodoo4/5 give are more memory and few screenmodes not available for Voodoo3. Second one is nice with few demos, but that's all.

[Kin-Hell]

Be sure to Set the Mediator to a 512Mb window space.

[AMC258]

How?

I have had a Voodoo 5500 since I bought my Meditator, well over 5 years ago (don't remember exactly when). I know there is a WINSIZE jumper, but way back when I was told (by Elbox IIRC) that the jumper is nonfunctional on the Meditator I have. Also, I have not noticed any difference in operation with the jumper on or off.

[Rob]

@CLS2086

1 CPU can manage 32 Mb, but Mediator1200 can't do much than 8mb...

The Mediator can access the full 4GB of PCI memory space, but to a limitation of the A1200 the Mediator 1200 has to access PCI memory space through an 8MB window.

So on the Mediator 1200 your graphics card's memory is divided into pages of 8MB.

According to the information on Elbox's website, there is no such limitation with the A3000/A4000 versions.

[AMC258]

Well, either there's a 256M/512M window, or not. I'd tend to believe there is, but Elbox says
Mediator PCI 3000D allows access to the entire 4GB of the PCI memory space.

I've always wondered this: If you are not using OS4 and you are using the video card DMA hack, do you get more DMAable RAM if you have an extra unused video card installed?

[redrumloa]

I forget where the benchmarks were, but the performance gains with models above Voodoo 3 3000 were not worth it and even slower in many instances.

Just remember, the driver is a Voodoo 3 3000 driver.

[zipper]

I've compared 3000 and 4500; in 2D 3000 is faster in many functions as the driver doesn't support hw acceleration for 4500 as well as for 3000 - speaking speed on Prometheus. In 3D, bigger screenmodes 4500 may have 0.5 - 1 fps more speed.

[SuperTurbo]

whatever you do, don't switch to voodoo5500. I used to have one and its performance was severly slower and buggier than the voodoo3000. The voodoo5500 also liked to freeze the computer on bootup, so I guess the drivers are not as compatible with the voodoo5500 as elbox claims that they are. Good thing I switched to a voodooo3000 now. :)

[matthey]

Set the jumpers on the Mediator as the manual sais and try it. I have a Voodoo4 (same chip as Voodoo5) in a Mediator 3000T/4000T and it works just as well as my Voodoo3 did. The only bug I can think of is the black background bug on 8 bit and less screens and it affects both the Voodoo3 and Voodoo4. The performance is nearly identical between the cards in 2D.

Voodoo4 and Voodoo5 on the Amiga...

+ More graphics memory
+ More display formats
+ A little better display quality
- Higher electrical usage
- Larger card sizes
- Features and optimizations are sub par for Amiga
- May cause problems in some (older) 1200 Mediators

Voodoo3...

+ Cheap
+ Most cards are very overclockable
+ Highly optimized for the Amiga

[wurzel]

Well, thanks for the input, but I didn't think it would be so negative. So, on the whole, I'm better to leave the 3000 in and not change over?

Who'd 've thought that - not me!

[AMC258]

If you have other cards doing a lot of DMA, maybe switch to the 5500 for the RAM.

I've been using a 5500 for a long long time now, and I've never seen *any* bugs or crashes from it. I use some 8 bit screens too, and never seen any black background issue. What is it?

[matthey]

AMC258 wrote:
I use some 8 bit screens too, and never seen any black background issue. What is it?

Picasso96Speed and SYSINFO promoted to a Voodoo screen are examples of programs with the problem but it happens with certain other programs using 8 bit or less screens but not all. The background color and text turn to black. The only thing showing is the highlight color which gives just an outline of windows, icons, and gadgets with nothing readable. Displaying a new screen resolution or a system beep (the screen flash part) brings the display back to normal. I have the same problem on 3000T and 4000T with Voodoo 3 or Voodoo 4. My Picasso96 is the latest 2.0+ versions I could find as well as the latest Mediator files. I have tried with MMU mode of pci.library on and off and it makes no difference. Another oddity is that the Voodoo monitor driver crashes with a revision 6 68060 with MMU mode on. Not a big deal but I recently upgraded my Cyberstorm MK3 to the newer 68060@66 MHz and it crashed in bootup and I was like NO! I turned off the MMU mode and everything works great now. I'd love to hear any suggestions.

My settings...

*** Envarc: variable settings: ***

MMU = No
NoCache = Not Set
Emulation = Not Set
PatchInt = Not Set
VoodooMem = 31
VoodooInt = Yes
Warp3D = No
FastEthernet = 0

System Files:

pci.library - ver.6.5 (8328 bytes)
PciInfo - ver.1.2 (8088 bytes)
Voodoo.card - ver.4.26 (14692 bytes)
Vendors.txt - ver. info N/A (168164 bytes)
MedConfig - ver.1.3 (94021 bytes)
FastEthernet.device - ver.1.15 (7116 bytes)

Warp3D.library - ver.4.2 (67648 bytes)
W3D_Picasso96.library - ver.4.2 (39216 bytes)
W3D_AvengerBE.library - ver.4.2 (295716 bytes)
W3D_AvengerLE.library - ver.4.2 (282312 bytes)

AmigaOS ROM Update - ver.44.57 (321768 bytes)
rtg.library - ver.40.3992 (217988 bytes)
emulation.library - ver.40.389 (39652 bytes)
Picasso96API.library - ver.2.300 (24520 bytes)
ahi.device - ver.5.54 (75144 bytes)
68040.library - ver.46.5 (748 bytes)
68060.library - ver.46.7 (103636 bytes)


PciInfo report:

Pci Device 1:
VendorID: $10ec
VendorName: Realtek Semiconductor
DeviceID: $8139
DeviceName: RT8139A/B/C Fast Ethernet Adapter
ClassCode: $20000
RevisionID: $10
InterruptPin: 1
SubsystemVendorID: $10ec
SubsystemID: $8139
IOSpace0: $40c06000 - $40c060ff
MemSpace1: $60000000 - $600000ff
RomSpace: $60020000 - $6003ffff

Pci Device 2:
VendorID: $121a
VendorName: 3dfx Interactive Inc
DeviceID: $9
DeviceName: Voodoo5
ClassCode: $30000
RevisionID: $1
InterruptPin: 4
SubsystemVendorID: $121a
SubsystemID: $5
MemSpace0: $68000000 - $6fffffff
MemSpace1: $70000000 - $77ffffff
IOSpace2: $40c06400 - $40c064ff
RomSpace: $60010000 - $6001ffff


ShowConfig report:

PROCESSOR:CPU 68060/68060fpu/68060mmu
CUSTOM CHIPS: AA NTSC Alice (id=$0033), AA Lisa (id=$00F8)
VERS:Kickstart version 45.57, Exec version 45.20, Disk version 45.3
RAM:Node type $A, Attributes $505 (FAST), at $8000000-$DF7FFFF (95.5 meg)
Node type $A, Attributes $703 (CHIP), at $4000-$1FFFFF (~2.0 meg)
BOARDS:
Board (Index Information Ltd): Prod=2206/33($89E/$21)
(@$40000000, size 16meg, subsize same)
Board (Index Information Ltd): Prod=2206/161($89E/$A1)
(@$60000000, size 512meg, subsize same)
Board + ROM (HD?) (phase 5): Prod=8512/100($2140/$64) (@$F01058 128K)

[SuperTurbo]

- May cause problems in some (older) 1200 Mediators

that may be why I had problems with it... I have an old mediator, on which u needed to exchange those mach chips. Of course, Elbox never said that such a problem existed.

[Akiko]

@zipper

I've compared 3000 and 4500; in 2D 3000 is faster in many functions as the driver doesn't support hw acceleration for 4500 as well as for 3000 - speaking speed on Prometheus. In 3D, bigger screenmodes 4500 may have 0.5 - 1 fps more speed.

Was your tests carried out on a 1200 or 4000 mediator?


Hmm, Anyone know how both cards compare runing under OS4 native drivers?

[matthey]

I only have some comparisons under AmigaOS 3.9 ...

P96Speed 1.2 - ©`97-99 by Jens Langner
.----------------------------------. .----------------------------------.
| Short Desc: 3000T/Voodoo4MMU | | Short Desc: 3000T/Voodoo3@180MMU |
| Computer..: Amiga 3000/ECS | | Computer..: Amiga 3000/ECS |
| CPU.......: 68040/33 MHz | | CPU.......: 68040/33 MHz |
| OS/WB.....: V9216.9729/V45.3 | | OS/WB.....: V9216.9729/V45.3 |
| SetPatch..: V44.38 | | SetPatch..: V44.38 |
| Chip/Fast.: ~2.0MB/16.0MB | | Chip/Fast.: ~2.0MB/16.0MB |
| GFX card..: NO GRAPHICS CARD | | GFX card..: NO GRAPHICS CARD |
| GFX system: Picasso96 v2.0 | | GFX system: Picasso96 v2.0 |
| ScreenMode: 640x480 8bit | | ScreenMode: 640x480 8bit |
| Testlength: 13 | | Testlength: 13 |
+----------------------------------+ +----------------------------------+
| Descript..: Voodoo4 MMU=YES | | Descript..: Voodoo3@180MHz MMU=YE|
| : | | : S |
| Owner.....: Matt Hey | | Owner.....: Matt Hey |
| E-Mail....: | | E-Mail....: |
`----------------------------------' `----------------------------------'
+============================= Speed Results ===========================+
| |
.== Testroutine ========+====== # 1 =======+====== # 2 =======+= Diff. =.
| | | | |
| RectFill() | 16208 op/s | 17574 op/s | 0.92 |
| RectFill() Pattern | 11450 op/s | 9783 op/s | 1.17 |
| WritePixel() | 76106 op/s | 76452 op/s | 1.00 |
| WriteCunkyPixels() | 412 op/s | 411 op/s | 1.00 |
| WritePixelArray8() | 402 op/s | 396 op/s | 1.02 |
| WritePixelLine8() | 16414 op/s | 16514 op/s | 0.99 |
| DrawEllipse() | 7378 op/s | 7227 op/s | 1.02 |
| DrawCircle() | 9156 op/s | 9041 op/s | 1.01 |
| Draw() | 14984 op/s | 16791 op/s | 0.89 |
| Draw() Hor/Ver | 19418 op/s | 17833 op/s | 1.09 |
| ScrollRaster() X | 1738 op/s | 1836 op/s | 0.95 |
| ScrollRaster() Y | 1853 op/s | 1940 op/s | 0.96 |
| PutText() | 5144 op/s | 4860 op/s | 1.06 |
| BlitBitMap() | 10414 op/s | 9128 op/s | 1.14 |
| BlitBitMapRastPort() | 5583 op/s | 5214 op/s | 1.07 |
| BitMapScale() | 73 op/s | 74 op/s | 0.99 |
+=============================== Intuition ============================+
| OpenWindow() | 63 op/s | 64 op/s | 0.98 |
| MoveWindow() | 258 op/s | 261 op/s | 0.99 |
| SizeWindow() | 73 op/s | 78 op/s | 0.94 |
| CON-Output | 482 op/s | 529 op/s | 0.91 |
| ScreenToFront() | 125 op/s | 124 op/s | 1.01 |
+================================================= ======================+

P96Speed 1.2 - ©`97-99 by Jens Langner
.----------------------------------. .----------------------------------.
| Short Desc: 3000T/Voodoo4MMU | | Short Desc: 3000T/Voodoo3@180MMU |
| Computer..: Amiga 3000/ECS | | Computer..: Amiga 3000/ECS |
| CPU.......: 68040/33 MHz | | CPU.......: 68040/33 MHz |
| OS/WB.....: V9216.9729/V45.3 | | OS/WB.....: V9216.9729/V45.3 |
| SetPatch..: V44.38 | | SetPatch..: V44.38 |
| Chip/Fast.: ~2.0MB/16.0MB | | Chip/Fast.: ~2.0MB/16.0MB |
| GFX card..: NO GRAPHICS CARD | | GFX card..: NO GRAPHICS CARD |
| GFX system: Picasso96 v2.0 | | GFX system: Picasso96 v2.0 |
| ScreenMode: 640x480 24bit BGR | | ScreenMode: 640x480 24bit BGR |
| Testlength: 13 | | Testlength: 13 |
+----------------------------------+ +----------------------------------+
| Descript..: Voodoo4 MMU=YES 24bit| | Descript..: Voodoo3@180MHz MMU=YE|
| : | | : S 24bit |
| Owner.....: Matt Hey | | Owner.....: Matt Hey |
| E-Mail....: | | E-Mail....: |
`----------------------------------' `----------------------------------'
+============================= Speed Results ===========================+
| |
.== Testroutine ========+====== # 1 =======+====== # 2 =======+= Diff. =.
| | | | |
| RectFill() | 9333 op/s | 9820 op/s | 0.95 |
| RectFill() Pattern | 8779 op/s | 7084 op/s | 1.24 |
| WritePixel() | 73070 op/s | 72829 op/s | 1.00 |
| WriteCunkyPixels() | 60 op/s | 60 op/s | 1.00 |
| WritePixelArray8() | 59 op/s | 59 op/s | 1.00 |
| WritePixelLine8() | 4642 op/s | 4727 op/s | 0.98 |
| DrawEllipse() | 4027 op/s | 4229 op/s | 0.95 |
| DrawCircle() | 4234 op/s | 4456 op/s | 0.95 |
| Draw() | 14815 op/s | 14920 op/s | 0.99 |
| Draw() Hor/Ver | 17987 op/s | 18575 op/s | 0.97 |
| ScrollRaster() X | 795 op/s | 846 op/s | 0.94 |
| ScrollRaster() Y | 816 op/s | 866 op/s | 0.94 |
| PutText() | 4806 op/s | 4743 op/s | 1.01 |
| BlitBitMap() | 8911 op/s | 8589 op/s | 1.04 |
| BlitBitMapRastPort() | 5217 op/s | 5144 op/s | 1.01 |
| BitMapScale() | 29 op/s | 29 op/s | 1.00 |
+=============================== Intuition ============================+
| OpenWindow() | 59 op/s | 60 op/s | 0.98 |
| MoveWindow() | 241 op/s | 255 op/s | 0.95 |
| SizeWindow() | 70 op/s | 73 op/s | 0.96 |
| CON-Output | 443 op/s | 453 op/s | 0.98 |
| ScreenToFront() | 125 op/s | 125 op/s | 1.00 |
+================================================= ======================+

This is with an overclocked 3640@33MHz and Rev 11 Buster with Mediator 3000T/4000T.
The Voodoo3 is conservatively overclocked to 180 MHz. The Voodoo 3 I used has the faster type video memory and allows me to overclock to over 200 MHz but it doesn't make much difference in 2D. The Voodoo 4 is not overclocked as it ran pretty hot and from what I have read is not very overclockable anyway.
ENV:Mediator/MMU = YES was slightly faster in my tests.

Edit: Wow, That is almost unreadable now without the spaces. The first number is the Voodoo4, the second is Voodoo3, and the third is the difference between them. I thought this would help.