What other hardware do i need for scsi??

[Gav]

Hi
I have a powerflyer with a 30 gig hard drive but i do keep having a problem now and again as the power flyer seems to work itself slack....So since i have scsi 2 on my blizzard which i no nothing about in terms of what devices i will need..
Ok so i have the scsi 2 card,a scsi cable(the one that looks like ide)with a lot of connecters on it,the scsi cable that comes with the card...
So can i use any scsi hard drives? my cdrw is ide so is that still ok to keep that on ide or will it use a lot of cpu even if the drive isnt in use?
Would i be better off using a scsi hard drive rather than my ide drive?i will still keep my ide drive just as a backup if i do change to scsi...Oh i also have a scanner so would a device like this be something i should buy? http://www.powerc.com/cgi-bin/psearch.cgi?code=500-0009&rn=750&aid=&uid=ss4yp98ux1l8B8Q&sid=&cid=4&act=gpage
Thanks for any help.

[amigakit]

You could use this adapter at the end of your SCSI ribbon cable

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=295

This will then allow you to add an external 25-pin port to plug in SCSI scanners/zip drives etc.

The Blizzard SCSI interface takes the load off the CPU so it is very efficient with data transfer - SCSI will be an improvement in performance. IDE Hard Disks on the other hand are inexpensive in comparison to SCSI and you get larger storage for your money. So it's a trade off between performance/capacity.

[amigagr]

the cdrom in ide port will make use only of a fiew kb ram in idle mode (the buffer of the drive) so you can use it too.
i don't know what is your experiance of powerc, but mine is the worse ever in online shoping. from 1/2001 i should have waiting until now for os3,9 cd and some ram for my bliz if i didn't ask the credit's card bank to cancel the order after 5 months of waiting... just take care about...

[Gav]

@amigakit
Ok cool so how much is postage for that item??

[amigakit]

99p anywhere in UK.

[drewz21]

Having purchased several things from AmigaKit and having a great experience with them every time, I highly recommend purchasing from them. :)

[Gav]

Ok so so the cable that comes from the blizzard scsi plugs in to where??
I'm just trying to figure out how connect a hard drive aswell as external devices...
I think i get where that adaptor plugs in to but how do i connect the scsi cable to a hard drive and then back to my scsi controller??
Thanks

[alexh]

Gav wrote:
I have a powerflyer with a 30 gig hard drive but i do keep having a problem now and again as the power flyer seems to work itself slack....

Is the Powerflyer similar to FAST ATA by elbox? With a clip that goes over the Gayle (or is it budgie?) chip?

If you dont intend to remove it ever again, why not use a bit of epoxy glue?

[Gav]

Ah damn,just as i get a scsi hard drive and various bits amiga kit doesnt seem to have in stock the adaptor i need :(..Does anyone know where else to buy these?

[Gav]

Anyone?

[Dandy]

Gav wrote:
Hi
I have a powerflyer with a 30 gig hard drive but i do keep having a problem now and again as the power flyer seems to work itself slack....So since i have scsi 2 on my blizzard which i no nothing about in terms of what devices i will need..
Ok so i have the scsi 2 card,a scsi cable(the one that looks like ide)with a lot of connecters on it,the scsi cable that comes with the card...
So can i use any scsi hard drives?

Basically yes, as long as it matches to the SCSI version of your host adaptor.

I know there are adaptors to connect an UW drive to an SCSI 2 host and the other way round - but I do know nothing about their performance.

The problem with SCSI drives today is the availability of drives with a sufficiant capacity at an reasonable price.

When my old IBM 4.3gB UW-SCSI HD was nearly full I decided to buy me an 160 gB IDE drive and connected it to the CSPPC via an ACARD UW-SCSI->IDE adaptor.

The 160gB IDE HD plus the ACARD interface were still a bit cheaper than the 80 gB UW-SCSI HD (which was the max. available capacity here).


Gav wrote:
my cdrw is ide so is that still ok to keep that on ide or will it use a lot of cpu even if the drive isnt in use?


Hmmm - back in 1998, when I built up my A4kPPC tower, I bought an SCSI CD-ROM and an SCSI CD-RW and connected both to the CSPPC via an 68->50 pin adaptor.

Some say that this would slow down the UW-SCSI bus to the speed of the slowest device, but I didn't feel any speed difference between operating with just the UW-SCSI HD connected and operating with all other devices connected (but maybe you can only measure the speed difference).


Gav wrote:
Would i be better off using a scsi hard drive rather than my ide drive?


Look above...


Gav wrote:
i will still keep my ide drive just as a backup if i do change to scsi...


Good idea.
But you could as well use this drive on your SCSI chain via an ACARD UW-SCSI->IDE adaptor...


Gav wrote:
Oh i also have a scanner so would a device like this be something i should buy? http://www.powerc.com/cgi-bin/psearch.cgi?code=500-0009&rn=750&aid=&uid=ss4yp98ux1l8B8Q&sid=&cid=4&act=gpage
Thanks for any help.

Sorry, but this link just displays an empty page here, so I don't know what to advise...

[Dandy]

Gav wrote:
...
I think i get where that adaptor plugs in to but how do i connect the scsi cable to a hard drive and then back to my scsi controller??
Thanks

???
Why would you want to make a connection from your controller to your HD and then back to the controller?
:-? :-? :-?
I mean - I don't know the powerflyer - but the SCSI chain connected to my CyberstormPPC is like this:

Active terminator -> CSPPC -> 4.3gB UW-SCSI HD -> 160gB IDE HD via ACARD UW-SCSI->IDE adaptor -> SCSI2 CD-ROM -> SCSI2 CD-RW -> IDE DVD-RW via ACARD adaptor -> adaptor
UW-SCSI->SCSI2 (actively terminating the upper 8 bits of the UW bus) -> SCSI2 tape streamer -> slot bracket with 50 pin connector for external SCSI2 devices -> SCSI2 scanner -> active SCSI2 terminator (terminating the lower 8 bits of the UW bus).

[Dandy]

Gav wrote:
1200/060/192mb/powerflyer gold/mediator sx/voodoo 3000/SB128/Tv card.....Me love my machine.....

I bet you'd love your machine even more if you'd add an Spider2 USB 2.0 highspeed card and experience the possibilities it offers...
;-)

[alewis]

You can always try www.SCSI4me.com they have *eveything*, and actaully know what they are doing with scsi kit. One of the very few on-line retailers who do.

The drawback - they dont take paypal, visa, etc.

I *might* have an adapter somewhere. If you are in the UK, drop me a PM with a phone number and we can talk through the problem and maybe arrive at a different solution, I have a fair few SCSI bits and bobs.

Regards SCSI speed/performance on a mixed bus.

Strictly speaking, adding a non-ultra (10MHz) device to a ultra (20MHz) bus will cause the controller to drop the bus speed down to that of the slowest device. Why is this not seen nowadays?

Intelligent controllers (or HBAs) can communicate at device-specific speed, ie 10MHz to older SCSI-2 devices, 20MHz to later SCSI-3/ultra devices.

Thats the theory. It doesnt always happen. For example, I have an Adaptec 29160 with two u160 drives and one old UW drive. Sometimes the BIOS shows it talking to the U160 at U160/16bit, and 40MHz/8bit (!), and at other times all devices at 40MHz/16bit...

Your controller is a vanilla SCSI-2 :- 10Mhz, 8bit. It doesn't matter what you put on there, be it hard disks, scanners, optical drives, the bus will work at 10/8. You can stick 40MB/s UW drives, 80MN/sec U2 etc drives, they will work at 10Mhz, 8bit transfers.

The advantage of sticking "newer" drives is that they can offer a performance advantage, in terms of transfer rate from improved data density and improved seek times.

For example, the Warp Engine 040 has a SCSI-2 controller. A 2gb HP SCSI-2 disk delivers approx 5.5mb/sec transfer rate. An 18gb u160 drive delivers approx 8mb/sec... And system performance is noticeably nippier, albeit not hugely so.

On the Cyberstorm PPC, with an UW controller, the U160 drive delivers approx 28mb/sec. Sure, in neither case is it soaking the available bandwidth, but instead working at the max performance of the drive in that particular SCSI chain. Which is a good thing, as it leaves a little bandwidth for other devices. Channel bandwidth has always been greater than single drive performance, witness the number of peeps wondering why there spanking new u320 drive "only" delievrs 75mb/sec on a u320 controller. Change the controller for a RAID card, and add a few more drives, and the aggregare performance soon maxes the bus bandwidth :-)

Anyway. On an Amiga, adding hard disk, optical drives, scanners, etc to a SCSI bus offers a performance increase over IDE, an interface advantage (one controller to control them all, excuse the LOTR-esque phrase), and provided one follows basic SCSI guidelines over ID, termination, and max cable lenght, is very straightforwards and simple to implement.

I've had nothing but SCSI devices in my Amigas and PC's since 1991, until cheap large capacity IDE came out a year or two ago, and even then I only use for storage, and not boot/system/scratch-pagefile use.

[Gav]

Hi people
Thanks for the replies,ok this is the cable i have that plus in to my blizzard scsi card,so obviously i need some sort of adaptor that will allow me to plug in my scsi ribbon cable to my hard drive...So that is what i`m missing at the moment..

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=498&osCsid=93ee4237907b4f7ee16d4e76b16fde5a

[Gav]

:-? :-?

[alewis]

You in the UK?

[Gav]

Yeah uk,@Dandy,yeah i would love it more if i had a spider usb but no point now since you cant register posiedon for mediator users anymore...

[amigakit]

Is this the product you need?

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=295

[Gav]

@amigakit
lol yes that seems to be the one,did you just get that back in stock recently?